How to Win and Lose 40k in 2 weeks [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

12-06-2005, 04:18 PM

How to Win and Lose 40k in two weeks.

I wasn't going to share this, but I think its very important that I do so that other people can avoid what I did.

So I regularly multitable the 30/60 on party, with a dabble of 50/100 in there for good measure. After taking a 4 month break due to work and personal commitments, I played at the 30/60, I typically super multitable and in just playing the evenings and weekends since I work all day, in about a week I made about 40k. I'd never gone up an upswing that much or that quickly ever.

And then something really horrible happened, just for fun being in a gambling spirit I played blackjack on party. $200 a hand . . At first it was harmless and I was going a little up and little down (and playing perfect basic strategy) till suddenly I was down 2k and was like . . Crap, I lost 2k in 30 minutes . . What was going through my head was, man it'll take a lot longer getting that 2k back in poker, I better keep going . . The next thing I knew I was 10k in the hole . . And in due time . . I lost it all on blackjack. Don't ask me how, but I lost 40k playing blackjack on party poker. I'm such an idiot, I never really thought I had a 'blackjack problem' but apprently I do because I couldn’t stop … I was trying to get out of this stupid hole. I haven't been able to get it out of my head, that monye would have done wonders and I'm basically going to be starting from scratch. I've been trying to make myself feel better by telling myself that it was all money that I had won and like it never happened, but I can't get it out of my head. Yes I know, moronic. Either way, blackjack has been removed from party so I don't even have the temptation. But I've been asking myself If I do have some sort of problem. It was never like this before, but I of course didn’t' have instant access to blackjack before either.

Guys, I know a lot of people have already said this but seriously, stay away from blackjack. Erase the image files!

12-06-2005, 04:29 PM

Just wondering, do you think Party is legit? I played a few hands (not a great sample size) and watched dealer hit 19+ every hand. I understand BJ is -EV anyways, but wondering if Party - which is not regulated by the government, unlike Caesars etc - seems legit w/regard to BJ (not poker).

12-06-2005, 04:35 PM

You know, thats an awesome question. I'm wondering the same thing. I was playing perfect basic strategy. I had my table in front of me and whenever I forgot what I was supposed to do I'd refer to the chart. There'd be no reason for it not to be legit, just having the dealer hit on soft 17 and continuous shuffle means that the game is horrible enough but I'd watch myself just go on huge swings that had me questioning whether the party blackjack is 'fair' . .

Grisgra

12-06-2005, 04:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
At first it was harmless and I was going a little up and little down (and playing perfect basic strategy) till suddenly I was down 2k and was like . . Don't ask me how, but I lost 40k playing blackjack on party poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

You were playing perfect basic strategy and still lost? Man, this post belongs in the Beats, Brags, and Variance forum. So rigged.

12-06-2005, 05:04 PM

Even playing 'perfect' strategy, not including counting cards, still puts you at a disadvantage to the house.

Mind you, you're only at something like a .5-1% disadvantage, rather than a 3% advantage or so.

Consider this: For an average loss of 0.5% per hand,

0.995 ^ 500 = .08 .... so after 500 hands you're expected to have only about 8% of your money left.

Not so unreasonable anymore, is it?

Don't play games where you're guaranteed to be beat.

soko

12-06-2005, 05:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
0.995 ^ 500 = .08 .... so after 500 hands you're expected to have only about 8% of your money left.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's 8% of your bet sizez. If you're betting $200 in chips ever deal and play 500 hands, in theory you should net -$184.

UMTerp

12-06-2005, 05:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
0.995 ^ 500 = .08 .... so after 500 hands you're expected to have only about 8% of your money left.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
That's 8% of your bet sizez. If you're betting $200 in chips ever deal and play 500 hands, in theory you should net -$184.

[/ QUOTE ]

You guys need to visit the probability forum.

At a 0.5% disadvantage, if he plays 500 hands, he "should" be down (500)(.005) = 2.5 bets. No exponents necessary.

Tilt

12-06-2005, 06:23 PM

Boy thats really stupid.

soko

12-06-2005, 06:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
0.995 ^ 500 = .08 .... so after 500 hands you're expected to have only about 8% of your money left.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
That's 8% of your bet sizez. If you're betting $200 in chips ever deal and play 500 hands, in theory you should net -$184.

[/ QUOTE ]

You guys need to visit the probability forum.

At a 0.5% disadvantage, if he plays 500 hands, he "should" be down (500)(.005) = 2.5 bets. No exponents necessary.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your right, I didn't even look at the math just the result

NDHand

12-06-2005, 06:52 PM

Blackjack on Party is definitly evil. I played a 1$ hand, won it and called it quits. The dark side is too strong and must never be touched again /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

captZEEbo1

12-06-2005, 10:34 PM

I feel you. I lost around 2-3k one day on pacific, that was pretty gutwrenching. I'm really upset with myself that I let myself play that much since it's not really even that fun

Robk

12-06-2005, 11:08 PM

obviously its bad because its taking money out of the poker economy, etc. but i think it may actually be helping me.

about 5 times a day i get the gambling itch. and by itch i mean massive uncontrollable compulsion. in the past what i would do is fire up my regular games and go at it for 10-15 minutes, and usually book a small winner. seemingly +ev, but not necessarily. the problem is im not always in the "working" state of mind when this happens. sometimes im hungry, sometimes im tired, sometimes im shitfaced. and like i said im usually in the mood to gamble it up.

if i get stuck fast the short session can turn into a long one, which can wind up being a long -ev one depending on the exact variables involved. but even if it doesnt it might end up throwing off my sleep or meals or studying, or whatever. which only hurts my playing in the long run.

but now instead of playing i load up bj and play $15 or whatever. which doesnt seem exciting but does the trick for me (so far). even though playing lower stakes poker doesnt. i think it has something to do with the speed of the action, rapid fire results/decisions instead of folding and waiting for half the table to time out.

so i avoid the bad sessions and play basically a breakeven game even considering my ridiculous double downs. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

12-06-2005, 11:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
0.995 ^ 500 = .08 .... so after 500 hands you're expected to have only about 8% of your money left.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
That's 8% of your bet sizez. If you're betting $200 in chips ever deal and play 500 hands, in theory you should net -$184.

[/ QUOTE ]

You guys need to visit the probability forum.

At a 0.5% disadvantage, if he plays 500 hands, he "should" be down (500)(.005) = 2.5 bets. No exponents necessary.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not that good at math, but I know to never play against the house at anything.

4thstreetpete

12-06-2005, 11:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How to Win and Lose 40k in two weeks.

I wasn't going to share this, but I think its very important that I do so that other people can avoid what I did.

So I regularly multitable the 30/60 on party, with a dabble of 50/100 in there for good measure. After taking a 4 month break due to work and personal commitments, I played at the 30/60, I typically super multitable and in just playing the evenings and weekends since I work all day, in about a week I made about 40k. I'd never gone up an upswing that much or that quickly ever.

And then something really horrible happened, just for fun being in a gambling spirit I played blackjack on party. $200 a hand . . At first it was harmless and I was going a little up and little down (and playing perfect basic strategy) till suddenly I was down 2k and was like . . Crap, I lost 2k in 30 minutes . . What was going through my head was, man it'll take a lot longer getting that 2k back in poker, I better keep going . . The next thing I knew I was 10k in the hole . . And in due time . . I lost it all on blackjack. Don't ask me how, but I lost 40k playing blackjack on party poker. I'm such an idiot, I never really thought I had a 'blackjack problem' but apprently I do because I couldn’t stop … I was trying to get out of this stupid hole. I haven't been able to get it out of my head, that monye would have done wonders and I'm basically going to be starting from scratch. I've been trying to make myself feel better by telling myself that it was all money that I had won and like it never happened, but I can't get it out of my head. Yes I know, moronic. Either way, blackjack has been removed from party so I don't even have the temptation. But I've been asking myself If I do have some sort of problem. It was never like this before, but I of course didn’t' have instant access to blackjack before either.

Guys, I know a lot of people have already said this but seriously, stay away from blackjack. Erase the image files!

[/ QUOTE ]

congratulations, you've manage to beat my record. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'm not one to put blame on games being rigged but I swear there was a string of about 40 hands where the dealer won everytime pulling ridiculous [censored] out of his ass, all while I was betting the max. I nearly threw my monitor out the window.

Aceshigh7

12-07-2005, 12:15 AM

With 40k, should have done a martingale starting at 5 bucks or so. Would have had a decent shot at winning.

I know martingale is -ev but I think the results woulda been better than you experienced.

Good luck to you rebuilding your roll dude.

12-07-2005, 02:16 AM

Thanks . . thats the hardest part to handle is that i blew my bankroll and I litereally have to start from the bottom. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Aceshigh7

12-07-2005, 03:01 AM

You'll get it back, and next time you're at 40k you will think about what happened and how glad you are you'll never do that again.

jzpiano14

12-07-2005, 04:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Just wondering, do you think Party is legit? I played a few hands (not a great sample size) and watched dealer hit 19+ every hand. I understand BJ is -EV anyways, but wondering if Party - which is not regulated by the government, unlike Caesars etc - seems legit w/regard to BJ (not poker).

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm usually not one to cry rigged myself but it does seem like a small possiblitly since I've seen the dealer hit unreal streaks of 20's and 21's for a hour straight, but then again why would they want to risk ruining their reputation. /images/graemlins/confused.gif I dunno....thats why I avoid it from now on

NDHand

12-07-2005, 04:59 AM

I don't think it's rigged... well aside from the unbeatable house edge and the fact that the BJ tables will get them a crapload more money... if you call THAT rigged then yes /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

12-07-2005, 07:33 AM

No offense ment to anyone involved in this thread, but this thread is a wonderful example of the different psychological problems that probability causes.

You guys repeatedly make statements that essentially boil down to "I know that this would be incorrect, but I'll do it anyway."

I don't blame you at all, as I do the same. It's very hard (maybe impossible) to actually understand probability fundamentally; the best possible response is just to view things in probability as a game in which you win every time you play correctly, and ignore the actual game you're playing, which is way more complicated and can't really be understood intuitively.

12-07-2005, 08:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
No offense ment to anyone involved in this thread, but this thread is a wonderful example of the different psychological problems that probability causes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fabian

12-07-2005, 01:32 PM

So you were super multi-tabling 30/60, went on a good run and won 40k, then lost 40k on blackjack and now you're broke?

mj12

12-07-2005, 06:05 PM

"obviously its bad because its taking money out of the poker economy, etc. but i think it may actually be helping me.

about 5 times a day i get the gambling itch. and by itch i mean massive uncontrollable compulsion. in the past what i would do is fire up my regular games and go at it for 10-15 minutes, and usually book a small winner. seemingly +ev, but not necessarily. the problem is im not always in the "working" state of mind when this happens. sometimes im hungry, sometimes im tired, sometimes im shitfaced. and like i said im usually in the mood to gamble it up.

if i get stuck fast the short session can turn into a long one, which can wind up being a long -ev one depending on the exact variables involved. but even if it doesnt it might end up throwing off my sleep or meals or studying, or whatever. which only hurts my playing in the long run.

but now instead of playing i load up bj and play $15 or whatever. which doesnt seem exciting but does the trick for me (so far). even though playing lower stakes poker doesnt. i think it has something to do with the speed of the action, rapid fire results/decisions instead of folding and waiting for half the table to time out.

so i avoid the bad sessions and play basically a breakeven game even considering my ridiculous double downs."

_ I go into a 2$ sng and go all in everyhand

Reef

12-07-2005, 06:28 PM

200 betting units is a HARDCORE downswing depending on how many hands you played. Are you sure you were playing perfect strategy? Did you ever bet more than 200?

How much exactly did u play?

12-07-2005, 06:55 PM

well, 'broke' in the poker sense of the word. I hadn't properly played in months and then started with 5k and super multi tabled . . went on a great poker run and then lost everything including the 5k on blackjack. So I'm going to wait a bit and then start again.

Party only allows max of 200 per bet, so yeah, 200 a hand.

TripleH68

12-08-2005, 04:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Party only allows max of 200 per bet, so yeah, 200 a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Holee. $40,000 at $200 per hand?

When I read your story I was envisioning like a few $2,000 bets or something. $200 a pop. That is terrible.

lapoker17

12-08-2005, 04:37 AM

Diablo?

stigmata

12-08-2005, 10:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]

about 5 times a day i get the gambling itch. and by itch i mean massive uncontrollable compulsion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone should have a bonus to whore somewhere, all the time. If your feeling tiltish and need to gamboool, then a half hour blackjack grind normally brings you back down.

Bikeboy

12-08-2005, 12:10 PM

Don't take offense to this but thinking you've got to play more to make up for losses is a classic gambling addiction tell. I have a friend with a serious gambling addiction. He has it under control but when he didn't this was his m.o.

Fabian

12-08-2005, 03:17 PM

Ok I'm not sure if you know this or not but 5k is not enough to be 6-8 tabling 30/60.

12-08-2005, 06:20 PM

Oh I know, I didn't start with 5k at the 30, I started 6-8 tabling at the 10/20 (which still isn't really enough) and after two nights had doubled up and then slowly worked my way to the 30 again. That climb up is the rough part but I've had about a week to reflect and kick myself about 5000 times over my stupidity and I'm ready to start that climb up again. I removed the blackjack icons from the interface but even if they were there, I want to be able to ask myself why would I play a game called 'Give party your money' and not even bother opening it up.

Fabian

12-08-2005, 10:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Oh I know, I didn't start with 5k at the 30, I started 6-8 tabling at the 10/20 (which still isn't close to enough) and after two nights had doubled up and then slowly worked my way to the 30 again. That climb up is the rough part but I've had about a week to reflect and kick myself about 5000 times over my stupidity and I'm ready to start that climb up again. I removed the blackjack icons from the interface but even if they were there, I want to be able to ask myself why would I play a game called 'Give party your money' and not even bother opening it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I quoted your post and changed (and bolded) the part of it I don't agree with to reflect the truth.

I strongly recommend you read up on bankroll management, because without proper knowledge in that area, you are almost guaranteed to fail as a poker player, no matter how strong you are in other aspects of the game. The short version, if you don't want to research it too much yourself, is that you need at the very least 500 big bets if you want to play mid- or high limit online poker. Considering the number of tables you play I'd recommend more than that though, since your winrate will be lower, thus resulting in larger downswings. Good luck.

bohemian

12-09-2005, 01:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
How to Win and Lose 40k in two weeks.

I wasn't going to share this, but I think its very important that I do so that other people can avoid what I did.

So I regularly multitable the 30/60 on party, with a dabble of 50/100 in there for good measure. After taking a 4 month break due to work and personal commitments, I played at the 30/60, I typically super multitable and in just playing the evenings and weekends since I work all day, in about a week I made about 40k. I'd never gone up an upswing that much or that quickly ever.

And then something really horrible happened, just for fun being in a gambling spirit I played blackjack on party. $200 a hand . . At first it was harmless and I was going a little up and little down (and playing perfect basic strategy) till suddenly I was down 2k and was like . . Crap, I lost 2k in 30 minutes . . What was going through my head was, man it'll take a lot longer getting that 2k back in poker, I better keep going . . The next thing I knew I was 10k in the hole . . And in due time . . I lost it all on blackjack. Don't ask me how, but I lost 40k playing blackjack on party poker. I'm such an idiot, I never really thought I had a 'blackjack problem' but apprently I do because I couldn’t stop … I was trying to get out of this stupid hole. I haven't been able to get it out of my head, that monye would have done wonders and I'm basically going to be starting from scratch. I've been trying to make myself feel better by telling myself that it was all money that I had won and like it never happened, but I can't get it out of my head. Yes I know, moronic. Either way, blackjack has been removed from party so I don't even have the temptation. But I've been asking myself If I do have some sort of problem. It was never like this before, but I of course didn’t' have instant access to blackjack before either.

Guys, I know a lot of people have already said this but seriously, stay away from blackjack. Erase the image files!

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, I so feel your pain. I dumped ten bucks on that thing. Nasty.

12-10-2005, 04:11 PM

I think I lost $100 before I wised up to how unprofitable blackjack is. You must be sick in the head to lose 40k playing that game. Have you ever heard of a successful online blackjack player?
Can I buy your soul for a hundred dollars?

Colonel Kataffy

12-10-2005, 06:08 PM

If you're going to blow 40k, please do it at the poker tables.

12-10-2005, 08:45 PM

I feel for you man. I had a similar experiance with about 3k where I would bet $5 each hand and i would double it every time i lost a hand and when i won it I would reset back and bet $5. So if you think about it each time you win after a bad streak of losses overall youve made $5. The big problem with this strategy is the max bet. I was playing BJ on bodog where the max bet is $500 so that gave me 7 losses that i am allowed before the doubleing maxes out. Well obviously this strategy ended badly and I lost my bankroll, but it went even further. This happened about 4 or 5 months ago and i havent been able to win at poker again. I was up that 3k playing $.5-$1 and now I cant get back into winning mode in poker. ive lost about 500 in poker since. Im sure this is all just a mental thing but i now find myself questioning if I am even a winning player.

12-11-2005, 08:59 PM

i definitely feel how you feel. although i didn't lose 40k. i lost my entire bankroll last night at party. i had 2.2k, made it from $300 playing 1-2 and 2-4 for a month. and in one night, i blew it all playing party poker's bj. and its fuked up how u can't get the option to get 'even money' when you hit blackjack and the dealer shows an ace. but yeah, i guess we are learning it the hard way. now that we lost the money, at least don't lose the lesson of no more online bj. i am now going to have to rebuild my bankroll from scratch now..errr...best of luck

12-11-2005, 10:55 PM

Not to be rude.. but the stupidity in this thread is mind blowing.

First, why even play a game in which overtime your SUPPOSED to lose money?

Second, why play with your entire bankroll?

Third, whats the point of playing blackjack online.. and for that many hands.. The whole point of blackjack is the short run.. in the long run, you are GUARENTEED to lose money. How you managed to lose 40k is beyond me with 200 dollar bets.. but you would think after 5k, youd stop, or 10k... or even 20k, when your bankroll is being decimated.

Fourth.. the reason blackjack is fun in a casino is because you go to a casino to lose money but to enjoy yourself. While at the end of a night, you could be up money (and sometimes quite a bit), even if you lost (and lost an amount that your comfortable losing..) you still had fun. Its the atmosphere of the casino that makes it fun.. which is why I can't understand online casinos.. Once you start losing thousands of dollars, and eventually every cent youve made, you are no longer having fun, and your time and money would have been better spent elsewhere...

Subfallen

12-12-2005, 02:01 AM

haha awesome post frisky

12-12-2005, 12:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I strongly recommend you read up on bankroll management, because without proper knowledge in that area, you are almost guaranteed to fail as a poker player, no matter how strong you are in other aspects of the game. The short version, if you don't want to research it too much yourself, is that you need at the very least 500 big bets if you want to play mid- or high limit online poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude just dropped 40k at blackjack --- playing under-rolled is not his problem.

You can play with under 500 BB if you are willing to reload if you bust, as OP appears to be.

Edited for brevity.