77 flops a set but it turn bad

[therockofgibraltar]

villain is 50/12/1 after 50 hands.

SHould I just check/call the river?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP folds, Button calls.

Turn: (2.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

River: (4.75 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero folds.

How terrible is this fold?

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

[Sykes]

Raise pre-flop.

All the streets are fine. I don't expect him to raise you without a non-high club.

[aargh57]

How bad would a check/call on the river sound? I know that sounds really weak but I don't like laying this down after the raise as I think that at this point there is a one in 7.75 chance villain picked up 2 pair (or an unlikely straight) and I'd call anyway. I'm thinking that he's probably not calling more than 50% of the time when you got him beat (although this may be close, lots of these guys would call with as low as a K or J here) and I think that you may be able to induce a bluff here out of even timid players on this board.

Great river fold imo. The pot is quite small and he wont bluff raise you 1/8. More like 1/100 or something.

[Spicymoose]

Easy raise preflop.

On the river, I prefer check call when I have a strong hand but there is a 4 flush. Getting bluff raised sucks, but having him bluff when you check rocks. You arn't extracting too much value by value betting unless he is super super passive and color-blind.

[Sykes]

[ QUOTE ]
How bad would a check/call on the river sound?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty terrible because you're missing a lot of value bets. Also at this level, they're not raising unless they have it most of the time.

If this was 5/10-10/20, I'd either bet/call, check/call, or bet/3-bet depending on the type of player.

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
If this was 5/10-10/20, I'd either ... or bet/3-bet depending on the type of player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please, please tell me what type of player you are bet/3-betting this.

[POKhER]

As i said to you via AIM.

Preflop i was happy with (I dont like raising form crappy position anything less than 88).

The river bet/fold - Well its Clarkmiesters i believe? and the pots small so its ok play.

[krimson]

[ QUOTE ]
How bad would a check/call on the river sound?

[/ QUOTE ]
He bets the flush and checks behind non-flushes. Your putting money in when behind and not when ahead. This is a losing play in the long-run, imo.

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
As i said to you via AIM.

Preflop i was happy with (I dont like raising form crappy position anything less than 88).

The river bet/fold - Well its Clarkmiesters i believe? and the pots small so its ok play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I keep hearing Clarkmeister's Theorem mentioned, but I have never heard the exact phrasing of what he meant. I was under the impression that it was to bet HU when the 4th flush comes, but I thought that this was mainly done as a bluff, and that as your hand gets stronger, you maybe should check call? I dunno.

[aargh57]

I don't necessarily thinks that he is bluff raising 1 in 8 times. Couldn't he be raising close to this often with 2 pair here? In reading the comments I see that this is almost certainly the wrong play but just wanted to point out that my reasoning wasn't that he was bluff raising one in 8 times.

Isn't this standard Clarkmeister, with the set and running into the problem of a four flush board on river. I think the bet-fold line works well. If you check, you do miss the value everytime he had Kx or any other middle pair, since he'll check through. But you will get people betting at you with their lone club which you would call.

[ QUOTE ]
Easy raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this really an easy raise pre-flop? I think I've been checking it too. When I think about it, my guess is we probably do have an equity edge against two limpers, but it's probably thin. Do you guys raise 66 here too?

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Easy raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this really an easy raise pre-flop? I think I've been checking it too. When I think about it, my guess is we probably do have an equity edge against two limpers, but it's probably thin. Do you guys raise 66 here too?

[/ QUOTE ]

I might raise 66, yeah. We are building a pot that we often can take down on the flop for a bet. We also have pretty strong equity.

[zephed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Easy raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this really an easy raise pre-flop? I think I've been checking it too. When I think about it, my guess is we probably do have an equity edge against two limpers, but it's probably thin. Do you guys raise 66 here too?

[/ QUOTE ]

I might raise 66, yeah. We are building a pot that we often can take down on the flop for a bet. We also have pretty strong equity.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good luck with that. They don't fold the flop for one bet very often.

EDIT: I'm not disagreeing with the pfr.

Grunch:

I think this is an easy river fold the way you played it. However, if you know you are going to fold to a raise on the river, check call might be better. I doubt he is calling a river bet without a club here, but you may be able to induce a bluff if you check the river.