Trips line against over-agro guy

This was live $2-$3 (I'm posting here because the stacks were relatively deep), and I think villian was a little on tilt. I also noticed that he loved to try to out play people and bluffed too much. He had about $400 and I covered (by a lot). I was UTG and Villian was 2 seats to my left.

Preflop I make it $15 to go with 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. (this was my standard raise at this table). Villian calls, BB calls.

Flop ($43 after rake) 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
BB checks, I bet $30, Villian calls.

Turn ($103) 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
I check, Villian checks

River ($103) 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
I bet $100

What do people think of this line?

[Bukem_]

Bet the turn. 60-80.

Post deleted by dd323

[Bukem_]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I like my line better here, I'll explain why after more people comment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you asking for advice, or is this a lesson?

Not a lesson, I actually will delete that other post. I am definately not in a position to be giving lessons. But could you explain why you think a 2/3 pot sized bet is good here?

[Bukem_]

Don't have to delete other post, its already quoted anyways.

2/3 on turn is good since it represents a scared overpair.

Now the pot gets bloated to a good size for the over aggro to now steal it.

You want to build a pot here, checking turn fails to do that.

[Ghazban]

When somebody as you described plays this passively, they almost always have a monster. Did he push over the top on the end with 99?

[Bukem_]

[ QUOTE ]
When somebody as you described plays this passively, they almost always have a monster. Did he push over the top on the end with 99?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, 99. I don't think I've ever seen a tilting aggro have the discipline to check/call the all the way to the river.

Hmm, actually in general I like your line. I guess the part I left out of this, is that I had been picking up a lot of pots because i had some tells on 2 of the other big stacks, and had been betting hard on the river when they were weak (sometimes with air). I had also just been caught bluffing with over cards. I wanted to represent a scared half hearted cont. bet with AK, and a steal attempt on the river. I also had a feeling that if I fired a second barrel on the turn he might give up, but now that I think about it, you're line might have achieved the same thing. Hmmm, tough game this is. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I agree, he really was not a great player, and he was just the type to not be able to resist representing flopped trips here. He pushed the river with KQo, and I stacked him.

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When somebody as you described plays this passively, they almost always have a monster. Did he push over the top on the end with 99?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, 99. I don't think I've ever seen a tilting aggro have the discipline to check/call the all the way to the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
Bad players who are overaggressive and love to bluff slowplay their monsters to death. Tilt often enhances this tendency (so they get more aggressive with nothing and more passive with strong hands).

99 was certainly in his range, but I think it also included lots of other hands.

[Bukem_]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree, he really was not a great player, and he was just the type to not be able to resist representing flopped trips here. He pushed the river with KQo, and I stacked him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Once you gave the info that you had him set up for this, your line makes more sense.

But he really has to be on super tilt to do this. His river line doesn't represents trips, it represents stealing your bluff, and is either very hard to do, or done by a monkey on tilt.

In general, betting turn with medium bet is much more tempting, and easier for an over aggro to attempt to steal.

Yeah, actually, I may be being results oriented here. I think this was quite a coup for it to work out like this, and I have to admit, that the more I think about this, i really like your line.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Leptyne]

Checking the turn would be (might be) correct v. an aggro if you have position to induce a river bluff. OOP this line would be used to control pot size.

When you open-raise you suggest strength. At the flop your CB suggests that you have a 9 or can beat 99. So what kind of hand range can villain have to call your flop bet? Surely his range includes 76, JT, QT, K9, TT, JJ. Could be an 86, 96, etc. You tell me.

The point is that you seem to be in the position that a free card will beat you. Not really sure since if villain wanted a free card the standard line would be to raise the flop. When a blank hits the turn you need to bet again to build the pot and make villain pay to see the river.

I do get it. The guy is over-aggro and you want to give him an opportunity to bluff. With this flop he could easily have a str8 draw or be representing a str8 draw. A typical agro will take his shot when the scare card hits. You're assuming he doesn't have it and will call his bluff.

I'm going to pot the flop. Over-aggro has a chance to make a move right here. I'm guessing you have committed when you lead. On a blank turn I fire at the pot again. If the str8 makes (nice if it's a 7) I'm going to check to aggro.

That's it. Pot, pot, push. Call or push a raise. Check push-raise a scare card.

Sure villain can bluff the river, but that just looks suspicious. What is he representing? If villain has the best hand then you look like the over-aggro. I just don't see this as a good place to bluff and it looks like you gave him an opportunity to get away on the cheap. Of course if he's a donk that is determined to get all his money in then it won't make any difference how you play the hand.