understanding rake structure?

i am looking into rakes on different sites, which is very confusing. and i don't want to deal with lots of customer service frustration.

i was wondering:

do sites usually have a minimum pot for a rake to be taken?

i noticed partypoker doesn't seem to take a rake until there's a reasonable amount of $$$ in the pot (could be wrong though - i couldn't find party's rake structure, but they have the rake basket you can watch).

my other site has all kinds of rake rules, but you can never actually see the rake (at least not easily and then you aren't really sure)

i wish both sites would just tell us what the rake is each hand.

secondly, my one site says 5 cents rake for each $1 in pot (max $3 rake on any pot), but is it like alot of pay parking lots in major cities where they would charge you 10 cents for a $1.10 pot (i.e. into 2nd dollar of pot). it's very, very frustrating at parking lots.

my key bottomline question is how beatable are micro-limits? is the rake structure much worse? i can't really figure it out on my own, but it scares me.

thanks in advance for any responses!... i tried to search, but too much stuff and not specific enough.

Here is Party's rake structure:
http://www.partypoker.com/games/how_to_play/rake.html

I think with any poker game you must focus on the fundamentals, which are: not winning the most pots, but getting the most out of the pots you do win.

With the looseness of most Micro and Small Stakes games, I think playing a tight-aggressive game will far outweigh any rake structure.

The micro-limit games won't pull in a great deal of money regardless of the rake. I think of the micro-limits as training for the next higher limit.

But then the question is what limit is a good limit (i.e. making a decent amount of money)?

[ QUOTE ]
i am looking into rakes on different sites, which is very confusing. and i don't want to deal with lots of customer service frustration.

i was wondering:

do sites usually have a minimum pot for a rake to be taken?

i noticed partypoker doesn't seem to take a rake until there's a reasonable amount of $$$ in the pot (could be wrong though - i couldn't find party's rake structure, but they have the rake basket you can watch).

my other site has all kinds of rake rules, but you can never actually see the rake (at least not easily and then you aren't really sure)

i wish both sites would just tell us what the rake is each hand.

secondly, my one site says 5 cents rake for each $1 in pot (max $3 rake on any pot), but is it like alot of pay parking lots in major cities where they would charge you 10 cents for a $1.10 pot (i.e. into 2nd dollar of pot). it's very, very frustrating at parking lots.

my key bottomline question is how beatable are micro-limits? is the rake structure much worse? i can't really figure it out on my own, but it scares me.

thanks in advance for any responses!... i tried to search, but too much stuff and not specific enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rake is a lot on all sites in micros games. I play .5/1 and 1/2 and according to my PT (I have like 60K hands) it's about 3BB/100 hands or so. However the games are still quite beatable on top of that if you can find good games. I think 2-3BB/100 (on top of the rake) is attainable multitabling at 1-2 (at least on Party).

tortuga and mlin,

thanks for the responses!!! my thoughts were that loose passive can get so bad at micro-limits that a huge rake is beatable. but games sure tighten up fast online at 3/6 level (for instance).

i think i'll play no-limit more. more $$$$$ in pots, bigger mistakes by opponents /images/graemlins/laugh.gif hopefully not too many huge mistakes by me /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

don^t play with the rake in mind. just play solid poker, and you will win.

The rake sucks for micro limits. In fact I think part of the reason many people move up easily is because the rake becomes less of a factor. Going from 3BB/100 to 1BB/100 in rake is huge.

this is why i started the thread....

i'm trying to reconcile the two thoughts

1) play really solid poker and don't worry about rake (tend to agree given how horrible people can be at lower levels; but surely there's a maximum limit - 15% rake like a carny game??)

2) moving up helps with rake alot (completely true, but you don't want to miss out on 4-5 opponents spewing chips and seeing most flops - they are each giving up 5-6 BB/100).

like i said, maybe i'll move to no-limit where it seems many of the crazies/fish with decent $$$ have moved (shorthanded too). it seems to me that limit game fishiness has declined sharply in the last couple of years.

very interested. obviously i'm trying to guage bankroll requirements vs. risk of just getting run over at tight/aggressive table (where i think you have to have bonus to win long-term; i know others will disagree).