Out of Position

[Jonny1723]

Hello,

I have only played Poker for about a year or two, but seem to do ok on the limits I play at (0.50 / 1.00).

However, I seem to struggle with the following scenario, and would like some advice from the experts please.

AK out of position

I have say AK, so I raise it PF.
At these limits I'll usually get a few callers.
The flop comes down say T72r.
Automatically I will bet out as I figure it's expected given I'm the PF raiser. Also, it may get some people out of the pot.
The turn the comes another blank.

This is where I don't really know what to do.

1) I used to bet out automatically, thinking that if I get raised, I'm out of the pot. Also thinking that a lot of people will call a bet UI on the cheap street, but not on the more expensive one.
However, more often than not they will call another bet regardless, so I don't really know where I am.

Usually it'll get the river, and I'll check, they'll bet and I'll call. They then show me bottom / middle pair.


2) Sometimes I'll check the turn UI to them, but more often than not, one ofthem will bet out.
Now I don't know if they have bet becuase they have position, or because they have hit something.
Should I call the bet, or fold ?
Obviously it seems a bit weak that I should fold to every bet like this, especially as I've handed them the initiative.
Also, I know the pot will make a difference in making the decision, but let's assume the pots are the average of $4-5.

Thanks.

J.

pf Raise, flop bet, turn bet, riv check is pretty standard line UI.

I think the reason AK is the hardest hand to play for people starting out is that TV makes it out to be a monster, which it isn't, and I think most everyone assumes a raiser has AK. So if it is pretty easy for everyone else to know where they are in the hand if the board is small. I think at the small limits you will make more money than you'll lose by never, ever, calling a bet with ace high. Standard disclaimer about reads, etc.

[Spartan1983]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the reason AK is the hardest hand to play for people starting out is that TV makes it out to be a monster, which it isn't, and I think most everyone assumes a raiser has AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong and wrong IMO. AK is a monster hand, but you still have to know what to do with it postflop. You really think "everyone" assumes a preflop raise means AK?

every play is correct in different situations.

post a few examples of hands and they can be differentiated by why some are continuation turn bets and some are flop checks.

Depending on what limit/player I face, I may think my AK is the best hand out there even if 4 blanks have come so I bet the turn aswell if I have a good feeling about it.

[sean c]

Johnny it so depends on how many and what type of players you are against. What the texture of the flop and turn cards are. Basically auto betting the flop and turn just because you have AK and raised pre flop is so wrong. You have to be able to evaluate each street and decide what your best action is. Its standard SSHE whats the expectation of each possible action that you can take given all the information you have.

[BoogerFace]

I think the reason AK is tricky is that you have an equity edge preflop, but post flop you don't if the flop misses you.

Pokerstove says AK has around 40% equity preflop vs 3 random hands, but drops down to slightly behind on the t72 rainbow flop.

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the reason AK is the hardest hand to play for people starting out is that TV makes it out to be a monster, which it isn't, and I think most everyone assumes a raiser has AK. So if it is pretty easy for everyone else to know where they are in the hand if the board is small. I think at the small limits you will make more money than you'll lose by never, ever, calling a bet with ace high. Standard disclaimer about reads, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
Pretty much wrong on every count.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the reason AK is the hardest hand to play for people starting out is that TV makes it out to be a monster, which it isn't, and I think most everyone assumes a raiser has AK. So if it is pretty easy for everyone else to know where they are in the hand if the board is small. I think at the small limits you will make more money than you'll lose by never, ever, calling a bet with ace high. Standard disclaimer about reads, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
Pretty much wrong on every count.

[/ QUOTE ]

Somebody had to say it.

[RiverDood]

Tricky hand -- and a great reason to start taking notes on your opponents.

Do your opponents include someone who previously played 66 to the river, regardless of how mnay overs hit the board? Don't expect to blast out that guy no matter how many continuation bets you fire.

Do your opponents include people who previously raised and then folded when they missed the flop? Now a couple continuation bets by you look much stronger.

Also, if it's a multiway pot, what do you know about the first player to act after you? If he's tight and likely to fold, each succeeding player will be offered crummy odds to stay in, assuming you make continuation bets. If he's a calling station and is likely to stay in with a gutshot, bottom pair, etc., then later players with draws or middle pairs are being given odds to call your continuation bet, too.

At .50/$1, I've found playing styles vary wildly. Maniacs, rocks and calling stations sit side by side. Far more so than at the tiny limits (everyone is LP) or at higher limits (people start to know what they're doing.) Taking even cursory notes helps a lot in knowing what line might work best in delicate situations.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
pf Raise, flop bet, turn bet, riv check is pretty standard line UI.

[/ QUOTE ]

OOP with "a few" cold-callers, this is often spewage.

AK is tough to play OOP when it misses. Failure to raise preflop (if you're worried about cold-callers) is a gigantic leak. Betting the flop UI against three or more players is often a leak. Betting the turn UI against two or more players is often a leak (unless you have specific reason to believe they'll fold). The decision to check-call/check-fold the flop depends on the board texture, pot size, number of villains in the pot, their aggression level, and a number of other factors.

Nobody said that strong hands had to be easy.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
pf Raise, flop bet, turn bet, riv check is pretty standard line UI.

[/ QUOTE ]

OOP with "a few" cold-callers, this is often spewage.

AK is tough to play OOP when it misses. Failure to raise preflop (if you're worried about cold-callers) is a gigantic leak. Betting the flop UI against three or more players is often a leak. Betting the turn UI against two or more players is often a leak (unless you have specific reason to believe they'll fold). The decision to check-call/check-fold the flop depends on the board texture, pot size, number of villains in the pot, their aggression level, and a number of other factors.

Nobody said that strong hands had to be easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the best answer for me so far...and something that I only figured out recently myself.