I WILL TEACH YOU TO BEAT ME

I have changed my mind as I have decided, how fat my wallet is more important to me,than how fat my ego is.

I can understand players supporting eachother to what's going on in the poker world.I think it is very good.I get assistance here that is very useful and where I can be of assistance I will happily contribute.

But what goes on in this forum boggles the mind.
I will not however go on to explain.

[splashpot]

Go away.

[TheNoodleMan]

I am consistantly amazed at how hard it is to teach someone to beat me. I have tried to teach some friends everything I know about poker, and invariably I end up learning more from them about how the recreational player thinks.
If you think that you can increase your edge by not engaging in active discussion with the forum, good luck.

[Mr_J]

If the original sngers didn't have a forum and discuss strategy, they'd have a similar hourly rate as today, but play half as many tables and half the stakes!!!

[Freudian]

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt."

Mark Twain

[skipperbob]

[ QUOTE ]
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt."

Mark Twain

[/ QUOTE ]

"I could make more than 1600 posts and have you think me a fool; or, I could make one more and remove all doubt"
/images/graemlins/crazy.gifSFB /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Yes Mr J nothing much more needs to be said as to the result of teaching others to beat you. What one thinks is harmless information that can not come back to haunt you has such an affect that I am amazed that truly intelligent people as the majority of these people are do not realise the impact.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes Mr J nothing much more needs to be said as to the result of teaching others to beat you. What one thinks is harmless information that can not come back to haunt you has such an affect that I am amazed that truly intelligent people as the majority of these people are do not realise the impact.

[/ QUOTE ]

99% of recreational players couldnt come here and read for a few days and go on to "beat me" in SNGs. Ive seen even regular posters take info from here, and later post a hand where what they thought they had learned was completely missapplied.

All the info is out there, books, articles, forums, etc...Ill never worry about the mass of poker players being able to absorb it all and apply it. It takes a lot of time, and if a player is willing to put in that time, then they would've gotten there regardless of what we discuss on this silly forum.

I have taken much more than I have given here and I think the majority of posters feel the same. I don't know what your motive is, but I think you're wrong.

Our little poker game is an ever changing climate.Takes experience to see differences which really matter.Which because of your experience you can now put into affect.This takes time to work out exactly how to employ new plays.I will not be the only one to work these things out nor you.
But some LUNATIC experienced poker player comes along to tell everyone what new tactics to use.My motive Pooh is to wake some people up as to cause and affect.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
I have changed my mind as I have decided, how fat my wallet is more important to me,than how fat my ego is.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you mean to imply by your post that you thought you were giving up information by posting so much strategy on this site or forum?

amazingly when i look over your massive number of posts i see a whopping zero strategy posts. this isn't entirely surprising.

since you've been lurking and just taking the free information already, i don't know what you've changed your mind about exactly. or are you actually complaining because you have a large wallet, and you are now willing to sacrifice ego by carrying the requisite purse, even though it will subject you to the ridicule of many. i'm impressed that you're man enough to carry a purse.

have fun er, continuing to lurk. we'll miss you?

c

do you realize how popular poker is? i assure you that the viewership of ESPN's coverage of WSOP dwarfs the readership of this forum. those are new people loading up Party or Stars every day.

secondly, as has been said, it takes a hell of a lot of work to "beat" any game with consistency.

i honestly cannot imagine that someone could come to 2+2 view all posts of one-player and then "beat" their game based upon that information. does this sound mildly crazy to anyone else?

i learn infinitely more about my own game from thinking about other people's hands in a serious way, which i think is the case for most readers here.

"Dancing is silent poetry."

- Simonides (556-468bc)

Sorry to have offended anyone here,that was not my motive.To wake up yes,to offend NO.All I want to do is bring attention to something which is very important.What are one's motives?To show the world how clever and great poker player one is,or to make money playing the game.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
Our little poker game is an ever changing climate.Takes experience to see differences which really matter.Which because of your experience you can now put into affect.This takes time to work out exactly how to employ new plays.I will not be the only one to work these things out nor you.
But some LUNATIC experienced poker player comes along to tell everyone what new tactics to use.My motive Pooh is to wake some people up as to cause and affect.

[/ QUOTE ]

better players will be aware of this and will try to stay one step ahead. This is off point though.

You're being overly cryptic for no real good reason. If you feel discussing poker is detrimental to your wallet, you shouldnt feel shy about discussing "why" discussing poker is detrimental to your wallet. Or is this just a joke?

If I had to guess, you are a newer player who has recently been on a good run who now feels that he knows all the poker "secrets" and resents the flow of information...Am I close?

NO Pooh,you are not close.I'm a very experienced player 15 years pro player.Maybe I just come from the old school of thought where you kept tight lipped knowing what ever you give out can come back to you.So you only shared with a few close people to discuss.

[citanul]

i see. so i'm once again being told that i should keep my mouth shut about anything that is a reasonably good amount of strategy? great.

i guess that what you're saying is you don't understand why anyone contributes to the forum. well, if that's your question you should ask it in any of a number of other forums: psych, internet, general, etc.

almost anyone who contributes here also gets more in return than they give. more importantly, the easiest way to get better isn't just to read, but to actively have someone critique your analysis.

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."

- Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

[lacky]

I gotta call bull [censored]. Their are widespread books telling exactly how to beat limit that have been availible for 25 years. Limit is still very beatable. If you really think there are "secrets" to success in poker after 15 years of playing, you suck.

It's more like golf. If I read a book by arnold or jack or tiger, I'll still suck. If I read them and spend lots of time and effert to learn, get some coaching, play lots, put myself in pressure situations in tourniments, maybe I will acheave some measure of talent in the game.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
NO Pooh,you are not close.I'm a very experienced player 15 years pro player.Maybe I just come from the old school of thought where you kept tight lipped knowing what ever you give out can come back to you.So you only shared with a few close people to discuss.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok...then I apologize.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your "school" of thought. I just happen to be of the sort that learns by interacting, not just by reading/lurking.

Being successful has very little correlation with being "tight lipped" however. Trust me, people who want to get good, will, but the majority of players have little interest in this, or just a waning interest. I sincerely believe (not to sound elitist) that raw intelligence is a prereq for being a longterm winner and even then, most are too lazy to do the work. There is no passive learning in this game, it takes an active role on one's part. If that means experience and uninvolved lurking, then, fine. If it means an active role in hand discussion then that's fine too. Overall though, this forum has very little impact on the state of the game in the big picture. People come and go from here and many never really win. Thats how I see it anyway.

Furthermore, why don't you take your gripes up with the publishing here. According to your logic, they are the ones that started this -EV chain of events.

[pokerlaw]

I have several good friends (lawyers, traders, financial analysts) who I consider very intelligent people and who play online. I watch them play and discuss strategy with them and you know what? we've each been playing for around 1 1/2 years and they have improved FAR less than me. why? they dont put the effort to take their game to the next level.

While they could have studied these forums, or books, or SOMETHING, they dont do that. They continue to have major leaks in their game, and while they are not HORRIBLE players, their lack of effort to learn holds them back.

This is why I am not worried about what I say on these forums.

Will you publish your current notes on players?I don't think so lacky.Because it is your work your info your edge.If it would hurt your pocket you won't do it.If you can see that it will your your pocket that is.In a live game where I had specific tells on players do you think I would share this information?

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."

- Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

[/ QUOTE ]

point taken...i'm done with this one.

I think to some extent you over-value the level of advice given here. I've been around here for a few months and can tell with my limited SNG ability that not all the advice being given is good advice. I think a majority of the strategy discussion is carried out by relative newbies (like myself) who are learning through the discussion and the thoughts they provoke rather than from the specific advice given. Part of the learning experience is figuring out which advice to ignore.

This bit was posted not too long ago:
[ QUOTE ]
this post is what sucks about playing at the 55's+

most of our good competition will be reading this...

for me, that makes me less inclined to answer these questions

[/ QUOTE ]
At first I thought: that sucks. Then I remembered that it's better to figure these things out on our own (after we read the different views and give it some thought) rather than just be told it is so.

One of my pet peeves is answers that don't involve some sort of reasoning. Something like: raise 150. A little reasoning behind the advice would be better for stimulating discussion.

Do you think Sklansky or Harrington or Brunson make as much writing books as they could if they spent the time playing poker? In Sklansky's case it may be a egotistical need to demonstrate to everyone that he's superior. I don't have direct interaction with poker authors, but I have had some with authors of bridge books and I can tell you that they don't all do it to feed their egos and none of them do it to get rich.

Take a look at the "where were you one year ago" thread to see that not close to a majority of players have moved up to high stakes SNGs. If the advice given here was some sort of magic wand, then there would be a ton of people who used to play the $11s, playing the $109s now. Simply not the case. Remember also, that there are probably plenty of people who were posting a year ago who did not make it in SNGs and disappeared (so won't contribute to the thread). And, even those who have been around for a year are more likely to contribute to the thread if their story is a good one.

Maybe the people who give advice are hoping that the newbies will be instilled with over-confidence and move up to the advice giver's level where he'll be dead money. The % of people who can actually turn the advice into profit at the table (at least at higher stakes) seems to be pretty small.

Keep your friends close,keep your enemy's even closer.

[lacky]

well, since that kind of info isn't on this forum, how does that apply to the subject of your thread?

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
well, since that kind of info isn't on this forum, how does that apply to the subject of your thread?

[/ QUOTE ]

lacky,

because strawmen are easy to argue against.

but you knew that already.

i'm done with this thread and i'm guessing you are too.

c

Sorry lacky, I do not wish to be disrespectful to anybody here and it seems I may be doing just that.

"The average person thinks he isn't."

- Father Larry Lorenzoni

Fine.I go back to work knowing I wasted my time trying to enlighten the enlightened who only wish to argue and prove how silly everyone else is and get everybody back settled into the nest where they can continue to show the world how great they are.

[mlagoo]

i think el diablo said it best

"LOL"

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
Fine.I go back to work knowing I wasted my time trying to enlighten the enlightened who only wish to argue and prove how silly everyone else is and get everybody back settled into the nest where they can continue to show the world how great they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have provided zero evidence that you are enlightened.

Why not post a hand where you dazzle us with your expert strategic play? So we know what we will miss in the future.

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]
Fine.I go back to work knowing I wasted my time trying to enlighten the enlightened who only wish to argue and prove how silly everyone else is and get everybody back settled into the nest where they can continue to show the world how great they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

the main problem with your logic in this thread is that you're talking to people who make good money...more money...BECAUSE of this forum. that proves that posting here is helpful. I know, because I am one of them.

>>>ZIPPPY

[mlagoo]

guys i cant post here anymore because everyone at the 22s is gonna find out my secrets and beat me

adios, suckers!!!!11!

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
guys i cant post here anymore because everyone at the 22s is gonna find out my secrets and beat me

adios, suckers!!!!11!

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny, I post here to make sure they are beatable. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[pergesu]

I think it's time to just tip your hat and call pooh your daddy ya hear?

Always forgive your enemies -- Nothing annoys them so much.
~ Oscar Wilde

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's time to just tip your hat and call pooh your daddy ya hear?

[/ QUOTE ]

"They beat me. They're that good right now. They're that hot. I just tip my hat and call the Yankees my daddy".

Pedro Martinez

[imported_etojim]

It seems clear to me that the knowledge that exists in this forum is the aggregate knowledge of many people who have shared ideas, posed and tested hypotheses and had (mostly) intelligent dialogue about strategy and play. To think that one could simply read this forum and use someone’s “secret formula” for winning SNG’s that someone else foolishly posted is ludicrous. As has already been alluded to on this thread, it takes a lot of work to adapt the ideas, concepts and strategies developed here to your own personal game. I agree that most haven’t taken the time and effort to do so, but the ones who have are much better (and richer) players.

There is a big differance to general strategy to
Hey! This is what's going on right now.I have spotted this and I wish to share this with you all.
What possible reason other than ego satisfaction can this produce.
Just means more people will change to employ the new strategy which comes up so often far quicky that would be normal if it is published.
I mean there is point where one would have to ask oneself. Do I give this information or not.
Where that point is on this forum is what boggles my mind.
All I wanted to do was to bring awareness of this.
And for this I have been insulted,accused,and goodness knows what people think my intention of this was.
I am not attacking the whole existance of this forum.

[Freudian]

Look at it this way.

You have contributed zilch to this forum and now tell us that you will contribute zilch to this forum. Do you seriously think anyone cares?

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a big differance to general strategy to
Hey! This is what's going on right now.I have spotted this and I wish to share this with you all.
What possible reason other than ego satisfaction can this produce.
Just means more people will change to employ the new strategy which comes up so often far quicky that would be normal if it is published.
I mean there is point where one would have to ask oneself. Do I give this information or not.
Where that point is on this forum is what boggles my mind.
All I wanted to do was to bring awareness of this.
And for this I have been insulted,accused,and goodness knows what people think my intention of this was.
I am not attacking the whole existance of this forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your tone is one that is critical of the forum...people post on the forum...people feel like you're being critical of them...people respond defensively. And now you're trying to lay a guilt trip on us for you being insulted, accused, etc?

Sorry we don't all think you're a gift to poker.

[IdiotVig]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a big differance to general strategy to
Hey! This is what's going on right now.I have spotted this and I wish to share this with you all.
What possible reason other than ego satisfaction can this produce.
Just means more people will change to employ the new strategy which comes up so often far quicky that would be normal if it is published.
I mean there is point where one would have to ask oneself. Do I give this information or not.
Where that point is on this forum is what boggles my mind.
All I wanted to do was to bring awareness of this.
And for this I have been insulted,accused,and goodness knows what people think my intention of this was.
I am not attacking the whole existance of this forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your arguments still assume that everyone will be able to use the knowledge that's available for their benefit.

There will always be a subset of the population that, no matter how much discussion, study, or review they have, this information will be incorrectly applied, and is probably very dangerous to them. I'm probably one of 'em.

[ilya]

Good god man, take a spelling class.

I understand what you are telling me.Contributions are made in differant manners though.
My original post now I realize has caused anger to a few especially one.I made a mistake in the tone I used which now I regret.I wanted to bring attention and I did not realize the negative response I got due to that tone.
I apologize now for it.Of course I will contribute to this forum.Just not the way that most people here do it.I do not have questions on strategy and never will have for I work things out for myself considering the all the elements at present.

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]
I do not have questions on strategy and never will have for I work things out for myself considering the all the elements at present.

[/ QUOTE ]

why participate on the forum, then? if you don't need the help, and you aren't going to help, what's the point? i know this sounds harsh, but I'm honestly just curious. it could be something as simple as new friends...just curious.

>>>ZIPPPY

[Freudian]

Yes, we all realize your contributions will be in the form of trolling.

Anyway, off to the ignore list you go. You are joining an impressive list and you should feel special. I don't put ordinary mrons there, I reserve that for extra tedious ones.

[ QUOTE ]
There will always be a subset of the population that, no matter how much discussion, study, or review they have, this information will be incorrectly applied, and is probably very dangerous to them. I'm probably one of 'em.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, and I thought you were talking about me.

To answer your question Zippy,
This is an ever changing climate.It is never the same.Always will be beatable though IMO.But I will not make things harder for myself in the long run(I have made that mistake in the past)I will contribute to what is going on around as I play on a few sites.Help existing players when confused as to what to do when things go bad.I will be able to advise when people are contaplating steps that they have not been through before.Anyway this is my idea of contibution.And of course I would have questions of my own when I don't know something and most probably someone does.
So if I can be a valid member of this forum where I get help and give help in that way, fine.
I will not however disclose information that would help my opponants reduce my +ev. Short term or long term.And it's the long term where people fail to realize where they go wrong by giving free information.

[tshort]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand what you are telling me.Contributions are made in differant manners though.
My original post now I realize has caused anger to a few especially one.I made a mistake in the tone I used which now I regret.I wanted to bring attention and I did not realize the negative response I got due to that tone.
I apologize now for it.Of course I will contribute to this forum.Just not the way that most people here do it.I do not have questions on strategy and never will have for I work things out for myself considering the all the elements at present.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you don't post anymore because you write at a 5th grade English level.

[IdiotVig]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There will always be a subset of the population that, no matter how much discussion, study, or review they have, this information will be incorrectly applied, and is probably very dangerous to them. I'm probably one of 'em.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, and I thought you were talking about me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not not talking about you...

[Rduke55]

I /images/graemlins/heart.gif this thread.

[pergesu]

Maybe you should start posting bad advice so we'll get collectively worse and your games will become even eaiser to beat. I would also recommend hooking up with stanzee to form a team that will take over the poker world.

[microbet]

Don't take it too seriously. Most of us don't.