Why would anyone raise 2x the blind?

[Vee Quiva]

55 sit n go at Party. Level 1

2 limpers and the button doubles the blind. I know it's a dumb move but I am at a loss for what the fish is thinking when he does this?

What kind of hands are they doing this with? Help me get inside their heads?

[splashpot]

Most of the time they have no idea themselves why they do it. I'm guessing they have no clue what they're trying to accomplish with that bet. They usually just see 2 face cards, good enough for a raise.

[ilya]

I think players who minraise limpers often have a limit mentality. They see a hand that plays well in *limit* multiway pots, and raise for value figuring that they have an equity edge over the field. So, they often hold hands like ATs and KQs. Other times players will do this with medium-pair type hands...I think it may be because they want to build a pot that other players will feel committed to in case they flop a set. Or perhaps they do it in the hope that someone will limp-reraise them so they can experience the rush of gambling with a vulnerable hand. Another reason may be that they have a hand like KJo and think that if no one re-raises them preflop they can be more confident their TP is best if that's what they flop.

I'm not sure. One thing I strongly believe, though, is that they are thinking *something,* even if they can't articulate what that something is.

[EasilyFound]

Many people do that w/AK; miniraise a pot with a few limpers.

[fluorescenthippo]

another reason is that they are afraid to raise more. they know their hand is somewhat good so they figure they should raise but dont want to put many more chips in preflop

[jeffraider]

geometric growth of the POT

lol

[Big Limpin']

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure. One thing I strongly believe, though, is that they are thinking *something,* even if they can't articulate what that something is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats very true ilya. They are trying to play as best they can, and must be thinking something. The list of reasons you give seems to match up pretty well with observations,too.
"My cards are above average"
"This builds long run value(?)"
"I gotta know if theres a monster out there"
"If i flop a set, they all have to pay me off now"
and my personal favorite-
"I want to disguise my hand! They'll all put me on AA, bwahaha...they'll all fold to 1 bet, and I win pot on flop! Every time!!"

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
55 sit n go at Party. Level 1

2 limpers and the button doubles the blind. I know it's a dumb move but I am at a loss for what the fish is thinking when he does this?

What kind of hands are they doing this with? Help me get inside their heads?

[/ QUOTE ]

Monster: "I finally got aces! If I raise too much everyone will fold."

AK-ish hand: "This is a raising hand, but it's also a drawing hand, so I have to raise but I want to see a flop without paying too much first."

KJs-ish hand: "Everybody knows that you shouldn't let people in cheap when you have a good hand. I guess my hand isn't that good, though, so I just raise a little bit."

Crap hand: "You have to mix it up sometimes. Plus, if I flop two pair or trips I want some money in the pot."

This is partially for entertainment value, as I don't think the majority of players are quite this bad at $55, but that's my guess at a sampling of what people are thinking when they do make those moves with those hands.

eastbay

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
55 sit n go at Party. Level 1

2 limpers and the button doubles the blind. I know it's a dumb move but I am at a loss for what the fish is thinking when he does this?

What kind of hands are they doing this with? Help me get inside their heads?

[/ QUOTE ]

Monster: "I finally got aces! If I raise too much everyone will fold."

AK-ish hand: "This is a raising hand, but it's also a drawing hand, so I have to raise but I want to see a flop without paying too much first."

KJs-ish hand: "Everybody knows that you shouldn't let people in cheap when you have a good hand. I guess my hand isn't that good, though, so I just raise a little bit."

Crap hand: "You have to mix it up sometimes. Plus, if I flop two pair or trips I want some money in the pot."

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

Very nice post, eastbay.

Summary: "I play bad."

[gisb0rne]

Min-raising first in seems quite effective though.

[Snarf]

[ QUOTE ]
Min-raising first in seems quite effective though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Min-raising EP isn't so horrible. Theres something to be said for keeping the pot small when out of position - even when you have AK or 10 10 or so...

I expected to get a laugh out of this thread but instead actually learned a lot from a couple of the responses...esp Eastboy's thanks...

Quick story:
First hand of a Stars SNG. Entire table limps in. Small blind completes. A family pot in the first hand? No...wait....The big blind min-raises. I laughed very loud. I laughed louder when he folded to the generally samllish reraise. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[applejuicekid]

I think a lot of people do it because there is a button for it. On UB you see a lot more people betting the pot. I think a lot of people want to raise, and find the raise button the most convenient.

[Snarf]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a lot of people do it because there is a button for it. On UB you see a lot more people betting the pot. I think a lot of people want to raise, and find the raise button the most convenient.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll admit to being lazy sometimes and min-raising what would always be a 2.5x raise if I played it live. I'm tring to break myself of it.

[jb9]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a lot of people do it because there is a button for it. On UB you see a lot more people betting the pot. I think a lot of people want to raise, and find the raise button the most convenient.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Not sure if everyone wants to convince Party to add a "bet pot" button.

[applejuicekid]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think a lot of people do it because there is a button for it. On UB you see a lot more people betting the pot. I think a lot of people want to raise, and find the raise button the most convenient.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Not sure if everyone wants to convince Party to add a "bet pot" button.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, yeah this would not be good since the bet pot allows players to play better unintentionally.

[Marc H]

I've minraised like that to test for a limp re-raise by an early player. If he comes in for a big raise, I dump the hand.

[Vee Quiva]

[ QUOTE ]
Many people do that w/AK; miniraise a pot with a few limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny you should say that. This opponent did it 5 or 6 times, but the only time his hand was shown down, he had AK offsuit.

One other reason I think can to minraise is for deception value. Other "good" players like you guys will be confused by it. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[DrPhysic]

There are in fact fanatic anti-minraise 2+2ers out there, as you suggest. It’s fun watching them go “InstaTilt” when they are one of the limpers and you minraise from a blind. Chat can get real animated for a while. During which time they may be busier giving lessons or criticizing than playing their cards. Occaisionally well worth the entertainment value.

(And before somebody bothers to point it out, I was as guilty as anyone else of doing this out of ignorance early on in playing online.)

Doc

[xJMPx]

The thing that would scare me about using the min-raise is you have done nothing to define the BBs hand or any other limpers that entered before.

The BB could be playing any two to a min-raise, so funky two pairs or trips on a paired board are a real possibility if the BB plays back at you.

[bluesbassman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
55 sit n go at Party. Level 1

2 limpers and the button doubles the blind. I know it's a dumb move but I am at a loss for what the fish is thinking when he does this?

What kind of hands are they doing this with? Help me get inside their heads?

[/ QUOTE ]

Monster: "I finally got aces! If I raise too much everyone will fold."

AK-ish hand: "This is a raising hand, but it's also a drawing hand, so I have to raise but I want to see a flop without paying too much first."

KJs-ish hand: "Everybody knows that you shouldn't let people in cheap when you have a good hand. I guess my hand isn't that good, though, so I just raise a little bit."

Crap hand: "You have to mix it up sometimes. Plus, if I flop two pair or trips I want some money in the pot."

This is partially for entertainment value, as I don't think the majority of players are quite this bad at $55, but that's my guess at a sampling of what people are thinking when they do make those moves with those hands.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

For the $11s and $22s I play, I'd estimate that 80% of the time the min raise indicates the "KJ-ish" type of hand, 10% are monsters, and 10% are crap/misc. The percentage of monsters does seem to increase as the blinds increase relative to the min raiser's stack size.

Some may feel they gain control of the flop? False belief that in position this may give them a free card when the flop comes out. Occassional it does catch overly aggressive players who like to steal after the min raise.