To weak with JJ as an overpair?

[starvs]

Button is 53/16 after 50 hands. I feel like this is weak, but I've been getting burned with TPTK and weak overpairs latley. It 3 betting or calling then leading the turn a better idea?


Empire Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

MP ($114.72)
Button ($43.05)
SB ($5.33)
Hero ($47.58)
UTG ($46.09)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls $0.50, SB (poster) completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.5</font>, Button calls $1.50, SB folds.

Flop: ($4.50) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $3</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $6</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $13.50

[youngin20]

I think this is an OK fold, I dont really see much rasing with top pair....And the board is fairly co-ordinated, so most cards coming on the turn would be scary as well. you might see a set here, or 78s....maybe AT? I think best case he has JT, and thinks you are on a whiffed AK/AQ, or maybe he has AT. but more often than not I think you are beat.

[Maulik]

I like it... another example of folding the best hand being okay..

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
I like it... another example of showing hatred of money

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

OP - Call his bet, and plan to check call this down. You have a hand that can stand a showdown if the board doesn't get any scarier.

[scrapperdog]

Yes too weak. This villian is not exactly a rock.

[Reef]

raise to $2.50 preflop

DO NOT FOLD THE FLOP TO THAT MINRAISE!! I'd lean towards 3 betting vs. this kind of laggy opponent.

[starvs]

I posted the hand as if I folded to get feedback on that option, but here is what I really did.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

MP ($114.72)
Button ($43.05)
SB ($5.33)
Hero ($47.58)
UTG ($46.09)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls $0.50, SB (poster) completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.5</font>, Button calls $1.50, SB folds.

Flop: ($4.50) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $3</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $6</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $14</font>, Button calls $8.

Turn: ($32.50) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button calls $27.05 (All-In), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $59.55

Still not sure what the best plan is. I don't think I'm beating much that is calling three bet then pushing the turn? AT is the only possible hand I can beat that does this maybe, and possibly QT?

thanks
-starvs, keep in mind i'm really bad

[Maulik]

[ QUOTE ]
I like it... another example of folding the best hand being okay..

[/ QUOTE ]

omg i'm a donk i didn't see the 53%vpip

[Maulik]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like it... another example of showing hatred of money

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

OP - Call his bet, and plan to check call this down. You have a hand that can stand a showdown if the board doesn't get any scarier.

[/ QUOTE ]

omg i'm a donk i didn't see the 53%vpip

[pokernose]

Your turn play was inconsistent with your flop play here. Although the king is a scare card, it might be a scare card for your opponent as well. I would bet the turn and fold to a raise. By checking the turn you gave your opponent an opportunity to bluff and take the pot away from you. If your opponent calls your turn bet, a queen may still be a good card for you.

[scrapperdog]

I am 90% sure you were good on the flop. Villian would have moved in to the 3 bet if he could beat an overpair.

I would have bet the flop to at least $2.50 and potted the flop. If he is willing to come over the top of that... then it is definitely time to re-evaluate, but you raised from the blinds (sign of strength), raised big (sign), bet the flop hard(sign). As played... your plays seems exactly like "I have this great hand on the flop, JJ/QQ, but [censored], that K scares me, please don't bet too hard."

The problem is... I'm not sure what size bet to make because of his short stack. If you bet half-pot after a check-raise like that, you're betting the same amount and that still telegraphs weakness, but if you bet more, he won't really have enough behind to make you fold if he comes over the top. As played... I would have bet $15-20 (2/3ish), and depending on my read... called a reraise but hoped for a fold. To 4_2_it, what line do you suggest?

As it stands... the 3-bet on the flop really bloatted the pot, but that was the right play. I think the easier way to avoid this problem on the turn or river is to bet hard pre-flop and pot the flop. Make him define his hand sooner.

Rather than bet out on the turn where you are going to be called/raised by better hands anyway, I think it is better to induce a bluff with some weaker hands. Betting to prevent a bluff doesn't make much sense to me. Your pretty much pot committed by this time, although there is still a little room fold. It all depends on the read of the villian. He could be thinking he is pot committed here and he might as well bet it out where he has folding equity rather than having to call on the river. The reraise on the flop was almost a min raise. Perhaps a bigger reraise or a call was in order on the flop. He could have min raised with top pair and then felt he could call a raise that small to see what you would do on the turn and then after the check he was all in with top pair? He could of course have two pair here with kt,t9. But I doubt he has a tt or 99 he would have raised preflop. And I doubt he has just a pair of kings, too much action on the flop. But he could have the made straight on the flop with 87. He could also have some sort of pair and inside straight draw. That makes sense too.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem is... I'm not sure what size bet to make because of his short stack. If you bet half-pot after a check-raise like that, you're betting the same amount and that still telegraphs weakness, but if you bet more, he won't really have enough behind to make you fold if he comes over the top. As played... I would have bet $15-20 (2/3ish), and depending on my read... called a reraise but hoped for a fold. To 4_2_it, what line do you suggest?

As it stands... the 3-bet on the flop really bloated the pot, but that was the right play. I think the easier way to avoid this problem on the turn or river is to bet hard pre-flop and pot the flop. Make him define his hand sooner.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 3-bet of the pot basically committed villain's stack. The king really isn't that big of a scare card for hero. Villain probably isn't calling the 3-bet with AK. QJ, a set or two pair (9T?) are the hands that beat hero. Since hero has 2 of the jacks you can somewhat discount the straight.

After thinking it over, if hero is to continue in the hand then pushing the turn is the play. Another play would have been to smooth call the flop raise and lead out the turn. If hero gets a push then he is most likely beat and can fold.

Try to play for small pots with one pair hands. Bloating the pot on the flop makes future decisions more costly (or profitable).

[starvs]

Well I regret not pushing the turn, because it seems to be the best play. But he said after the hand he had KT for two pair, so I donked into saving some money. I think smooth calling then leading the turn is the best play here. Keeps the pot smallish, and still puts pressure on Villain.

Thanks for all the help

-starvs