MB/CPU Temp Monitoring - Motherboard Monitor v5.3.7 v Alternatives

[Rick Nebiolo]

My recent posts on this sub-forum have concerned boot up problems, missing ethernet, hard drive failures, BIOS flashing snafus and other miscellaneous problems that seem to be solved /images/graemlins/smile.gif (or almost solved /images/graemlins/frown.gif ).

The problem that led to the above fiasco was unexpected shutdowns (like in the middle of a big pot on Party Poker). Googling around makes me believe the problem could be thermal - e.g. processor too hot because it's poorly seated. Although there haven't been any unexpected shutdowns today I'm still concerned the problem is there and perhaps intermittant. I'd like to be able to monitor my CPU and MB temps and fans.

Google searches have led me to Motherboard Monitor v5.3.7 (http://tinyurl.com/chuj2).

Another alternative is ASUS PC Probe 2.23.06 (http://www.majorgeeks.com/download3301.html) (I have an Asus P4C800-E Deluxe MB).

The overclocking geeks seem to favor Motherboard Monitor but was interested in opinions and experiences from the poker geeks.

~ Rick

[SlantNGo]

I started off with ASUS PC Probe and moved to MBM. There is no comparison between the two... MBM is the way to go. The setup is a bit more difficult because it may not be able to detect your MB, so you would have to go to the MBM site and look it up in a table, but it is hands down the better option.

[Luv2DriveTT]

Get a copy of SiSoft Sandra. Take a look at your PSU rails. If they aren't steady then you just confirmed there is a serious problem. Swap out the PSU, if that doesn't solve the problem then change your motherboard because the capacitors are probably bad.

TT

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
I started off with ASUS PC Probe and moved to MBM. There is no comparison between the two... MBM is the way to go. The setup is a bit more difficult because it may not be able to detect your MB, so you would have to go to the MBM site and look it up in a table, but it is hands down the better option.

[/ QUOTE ]

MBM looks pretty neat. Wonder what my CPU temps will be when I get back to dataming /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

~ Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
Get a copy of SiSoft Sandra. Take a look at your PSU rails. If they aren't steady then you just confirmed there is a serious problem. Swap out the PSU, if that doesn't solve the problem then change your motherboard because the capacitors are probably bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

The PSU checked out OK (about the only thing they didn't throw up their hands at) at a local computer repair shop. The test they used was a static test with idiot lights (green means OK) on the main board power connector so I don't know how good a test it is regarding steady output.

I'm not up to speed on how accurate these MB monitoring tools are so it might take a while to see what my power looks like. The PSU is a Fortron 530W P530XF (a relatively high end unit) so I'm hoping it's OK.

The overclocker forums I've seen so far seem to mention other things but I'll search on capacitor problems tomorrow. If my PC doesn't stabilize I may buy a new box (salvaging some known good parts) because I've already spent too much time on this.

Thanks for the input.

~ Rick

[Terry]

MBM seems to be more accurate than Asus Probe but is more difficult to set up. Either one will be fine to find out if your problem is heat.

If overheating does turn out to be the problem the quick and easy solution is to leave the cover off your computer.

Reseating the CPU may help if the thermal paste has dried out or lost contact ... no real need for high-end Arctic Silver type stuff, the thermal paste from Radio Shack works fine ... just be sure to do a good job of removing the old stuff.

A better heatsink (http://www.heatsinkfactory.com/ThermalRight-Heatsinks-p-1-c-251.html) is the final solution.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
MBM seems to be more accurate than Asus Probe but is more difficult to set up. Either one will be fine to find out if your problem is heat.

If overheating does turn out to be the problem the quick and easy solution is to leave the cover off your computer.

[/ QUOTE ]

My case has about three fans (not including the CPU and PSU fans) and I've read the proper airflow (and cleanliness) is dependent upon the case being closed. Inside the case the machine is clean with the round SATA cables and optional round cables for the optical drives nicely tied down.

I've got the machine working well again but it's only been two days. One of the big fixes was going back three revs from the latest BIOS (which was still newer than my original BIOS). To get the BIOS flashed properly I used a DOS boot disk with the latest Asus AFUDOS utility. The method using alt-F2 on normal bootup with a non bootable floppy seemed to have problems getting back to bootup and BIOS checksum errors. I also reset the power connectors and cleaned the fans and inside using a spray duster and anti-static vacume. Both of these fixes were mentioned by others in the various hardware forums.

When I started to have the problem with shutdown a few months ago the symptoms were weird. Generally the system would boot up OK and about ten minutes later would shutdown. It would come back up OK and then run fine even if I was datamining twelve tables all day. Other times just the display would shut down and I had to reboot (to eliminate Windows XP problems the Win XP power save video and hard disk shutdown options were turned off).

I'm guessing here now but I wonder if a CPU or other important fan wasn't coming on during startup but would on a second try. MBM properly set up should help me here.

Anyway it stopped doing this for a while after I cleaned it about six weeks ago. Eventually it started shuting down again and then more often and wouldn't come back up unless I turned off the power supply and disconnected the power cable for a while before trying again. One day it wouldn't come on at all until I disconected all cables (could a USB device by loading something down?) Then the primary hard disk went bad until I used Maxtor's PowerMax to restore it.


[ QUOTE ]
Reseating the CPU may help if the thermal paste has dried out or lost contact ... no real need for high-end Arctic Silver type stuff, the thermal paste from Radio Shack works fine ... just be sure to do a good job of removing the old stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

The overclocker and hardware forums (there are tons of them) seemed to point at cold flow problems with solder on a similar Asus MB and seating problems.

Because the system usually shut down during the first ten minutes I wonder if overheating due to poor seating is/was the problem (IOW wouldn't it be more likely under stress?). But if this acts up again I may give it a whirl although I'm clumsy and would have to look up the procedure. If I'm going to take the time to do this I'd use the best thermal paste I can find (on a similar note I never understood why someone would take the time to paint a room using anything but top end paint or knit a sweater with anything but very good yarn). BTW, just Googled Artic Silver, it's about five bucks!


[ QUOTE ]
A better heatsink (http://www.heatsinkfactory.com/ThermalRight-Heatsinks-p-1-c-251.html) is the final solution.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll look at this. Hopefully installing it doesn't involve soldering; that MB is screwed if it does. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thanks for your help.

~ Rick

PS MBM only has default things running and I only have 4% CPU usage right now (per task manager) but by CPU is at 102 degrees F and my case is 80 degrees F. This seems low to my uneducated eye but it would be interesting to find out how it does under a stress test (note to me: need to look up some good stressing utility).

PPS Also did Memtest86 ver 3.2 from a floppy and it ran for about four hours (maybe 20 or so cycles of the complete set of tests) without an error.

[Nomad84]

[ QUOTE ]
MBM is the way to go. The setup is a bit more difficult because it may not be able to detect your MB, so you would have to go to the MBM site and look it up in a table, but it is hands down the better option.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. I'll try this later. I attempted to install MBM a couple of weeks ago, but gave up when my mobo wasn't in the list it gave me to choose from. I might look into this a bit more now.

[Terry]

It sounds like you have an “interesting” situation with your computer in the sense of the old Chinese curse “May you live in interesting times.”

You have so many things going on that I can’t give any firm answers but I’ll touch on a few points.

The thing about proper air flow applies IF the case is closed. Leaving the cover off actually is a solution to air flow problems but with three case fans, rounded cables, and an 80° case temperature that doesn’t seem to be your problem. It is also easy to spot non-working fans with the cover off.

BIOS flashing is probably my least favorite thing to do on a computer. I’ve never come across an explanation for why sometimes it takes on the first try and sometimes I have to do the very same thing over and over again until it works. The only thing I can offer there is to be sure you’ve completely removed the old BIOS. It’s motherboard specific so you’ll have to do some research but you need to remove the motherboard battery and locate a specific jumper that drains the BIOS.

Yes, Arctic Silver probably is the best thermal compound and I have some myself, but I really think it’s overkill unless a person is pushing a system to it’s limits. I mentioned the Radio Shack stuff because it’s probably quicker to go to a local store and try it out than to order from a website and wait and pay shipping ... and the stuff really is good enough.

Reseating the heat sink is no big deal. The first time will take a while but after you’ve done it once it only takes a couple minutes. I’m pretty sure you can find very specific instructions if you dig around on the Asus website. It is entirely possible that the seal has broken; it only takes a slight twist of the unit, frequently caused by poking around in the case while routing cables or such. The Thermalright heatsinks are extremely easy to install; no soldering, just clips on.

Prime95 (http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm) is a favorite for stress testing. If you computer will run the torture test for a while without overheating or crashing, well ... have fun. It sounds interesting. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
It sounds like you have an “interesting” situation with your computer in the sense of the old Chinese curse “May you live in interesting times.”

You have so many things going on that I can’t give any firm answers but I’ll touch on a few points.

The thing about proper air flow applies IF the case is closed. Leaving the cover off actually is a solution to air flow problems but with three case fans, rounded cables, and an 80° case temperature that doesn’t seem to be your problem. It is also easy to spot non-working fans with the cover off.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's been hanging for the last two hours with some browser windows open and MusicMatch 7.5 playing. 100 F CPU temp and 82 F case temp. Sounds OK.


[ QUOTE ]
BIOS flashing is probably my least favorite thing to do on a computer. I’ve never come across an explanation for why sometimes it takes on the first try and sometimes I have to do the very same thing over and over again until it works. The only thing I can offer there is to be sure you’ve completely removed the old BIOS. It’s motherboard specific so you’ll have to do some research but you need to remove the motherboard battery and locate a specific jumper that drains the BIOS.

[/ QUOTE ]

The hardware and overclock forums hinted at these BIOS flashing problems but is sort of comforts me to know others on 2+2 have had these problems. In my case flashed several BIOS's using all three procedures (alt-2 on boot, with AFUDOS.EXE, and with a Asus utility that loads from the web). The one I'm using now seemed to take and go on and boot up. Others failed in inconsistant ways e.g. sometimes wouldn't continue to boot, other times I would get the "overclock failure" message or the "checksum error" message plus miscellaneous errors.


[ QUOTE ]
Yes, Arctic Silver probably is the best thermal compound and I have some myself, but I really think it’s overkill unless a person is pushing a system to it’s limits. I mentioned the Radio Shack stuff because it’s probably quicker to go to a local store and try it out than to order from a website and wait and pay shipping ... and the stuff really is good enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't Fry's have it? I live within a half hour of three of them and hate Radio Shack more than Fry's.


[ QUOTE ]
Reseating the heat sink is no big deal. The first time will take a while but after you’ve done it once it only takes a couple minutes. I’m pretty sure you can find very specific instructions if you dig around on the Asus website. It is entirely possible that the seal has broken; it only takes a slight twist of the unit, frequently caused by poking around in the case while routing cables or such. The Thermalright heatsinks are extremely easy to install; no soldering, just clips on.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I get another batch of problems I'll do this first.


[ QUOTE ]
Prime95 (http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm) is a favorite for stress testing. If you computer will run the torture test for a while without overheating or crashing, well ... have fun. It sounds interesting. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll check out this test. When I did BurninTest basic I got one floppy read error one time in several half hour (or whatever the limit is on the free one). This made me wonder if the floppy device was a problem during the BIOS flashes (note the main problem with the web based flashes was getting to the Asus web site).

Good post. Thanks.

~ Rick

[pokergrader]

Nah, the software that flashes the BIOS checksums all the data and it would not be corrupted by a floppy disk.

And datamining 10 party tables or playing music and browsing isn't going to do anything for your CPU usage. Definetly run Prime95 tortue test to get the try numbers for you CPU.

However, since all you are doing is browsing the internet and playing poker, I highly doubt that the CPU is the problem. As it was said earlier, often a bad power supply can cause problems exactly like this. Either made by a crappy company or one that is underpowered for your system.

I would download MBM, get your temps and also check the voltages on your 3.3, 5 and 12v rails under load (prime95 torture test).

Bad RAM will often give you BSODs before the computer restarts, but a bad power supply will just restart the computer randomly. Overheating CPU will also restart the computer randomly, but you will easily be able to test that with a Prime95 run.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
Nah, the software that flashes the BIOS checksums all the data and it would not be corrupted by a floppy disk.

[/ QUOTE ]

I got the "checksum error" (sometimes with "overclocking failed") in about six out of twenty or so BIOS flashes. Maybe those times the floppy did in fact screw up.


[ QUOTE ]
And datamining 10 party tables or playing music and browsing isn't going to do anything for your CPU usage. Definetly run Prime95 tortue test to get the try numbers for you CPU.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll report back in a day or so.


[ QUOTE ]
However, since all you are doing is browsing the internet and playing poker, I highly doubt that the CPU is the problem. As it was said earlier, often a bad power supply can cause problems exactly like this. Either made by a crappy company or one that is underpowered for your system.

I would download MBM, get your temps and also check the voltages on your 3.3, 5 and 12v rails under load (prime95 torture test).

[/ QUOTE ]

Already downloaded MBM but haven't fully set it up other than the basic measurements on the task bar and briefly looking at the dashboard. Also have run floppy based Memtest86 v3.2 (mentioned elsewhere) and the memory has cheked out in multiple extended tests.

Just launced the MBM dashboard. Later Hope I can find an option to write voltages or other info to a file while I'm away. Otherwise it would be hard to track consistant voltages.


[ QUOTE ]
Bad RAM will often give you BSODs before the computer restarts, but a bad power supply will just restart the computer randomly. Overheating CPU will also restart the computer randomly, but you will easily be able to test that with a Prime95 run.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's a "BSOD"?

From earlier post in thread: "The PSU is a Fortron 530W P530XF (a relatively high end unit) so I'm hoping it's OK."

It seems to get good reviews (although it's only $80 on NewEgg. This doesn't mean it can't be bad, but after paying an extra $60 bucks or so (over the standard PSU) I'm hoping that's not it.

Darn, gotta run - I'll try to check these things out tonight. Meanwhile machine is running well. Maybe I kicked it in the right place. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

~ Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
I would download MBM, get your temps and also check the voltages on your 3.3, 5 and 12v rails under load (prime95 torture test).

[/ QUOTE ]

Earlier today I ran several twenty minute bursts of the three variations of the Prime95 torture test. Everything passed.

Then for the past four hours I ran the blended test again and everything passed once more.

For the four hour blended test MBM indicates that the case temp has hovered between 84F and 87F. The CPU temp has averaged 132F with a high of 136F.

During the same test MBM indicated the following voltages:

Core: low 1.41v, high 1.54v, avg. 1.44v
+3.3: low 3.18v, high 3.30v, avg. 3.25v
+5: low 5.11v, high 5.16v, avg. 5.14v
+12: low 12.76v, high 13.02v, avg. 12.88v

These numbers look OK to my uneducated eye. Does anyone have any thoughts?

~ Rick

[Terry]

I’d guess that something you’ve done has solved your problem; maybe the BIOS flash, maybe reseated a loose component, maybe blown out a bit of lint that was causing a sporadic short.

Those temperatures could come down a little with some tweaking but they’re nothing to be concerned about.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
I’d guess that something you’ve done has solved your problem; maybe the BIOS flash, maybe reseated a loose component, maybe blown out a bit of lint that was causing a sporadic short.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I was working on a pre-production model of a piece of equipment for subs at Hughes Aircraft in 1981 it was amazing how often kicking it in the right place got an intermitant failure to go away for a while and get the machine to work again. The machine had about 160 five by five inch circuit cards spread over two water cooled card drawers. The pre-production machine had all sorts of jumpers and termi-point (a sort of clip used on the backplane) connecting the wiring between cards rather than the more stable wire wrap. Since the cards were repeatedly swaped out for different reasons during this test and refine phase the connections were very tenuous. I was a pretty good kicker/circuit card reseater but we had one technician who had it down to an art.


[ QUOTE ]
Those temperatures could come down a little with some tweaking but they’re nothing to be concerned about.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll probably leave the hardware and BIOS alone for a while and get all other programs running cleanly before loading any poker programs (I need a break from Internet poker anyway - LA B&M is great). If I see a nice fast replacement drive on sale I may swap out the first hard drive (the one that failed once). This will be fast since re-partitioning is easy with Partition Magic and restoring Win XP and programs is a snap with Norton Ghost.

The failures were a bummer but I learned a lot and would like to build my next machine from parts two years out. Meanwhile tweaking Firefox as the primary browser and adding extensions is fun. I can't understand why MS Internet Explorer can't even come up with a version that at least does tabbed browsing. Opera, Mozilla, and IE overlays have had it for years.

Anyway, thanks all for your help.

Regards,

Rick

[pokergrader]

That is a little hot for the CPU, what kind of processor is it?

[Rick Nebiolo]

"That is a little hot for the CPU, what kind of processor is it?"

It's a 3.0 ghz (not overclocked) Pentium 4 socket 478 type about two years old.

I think this (http://tinyurl.com/b6u6o) is a link to the exact specs.

Keep in mind it got that hot only under Prime95 torture. Right now it's at 105F.

~ Rick