TPNK in limped pot

[xorbie]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

MP3 ($316.37)
Hero ($236.95)
Button ($120.65)
SB ($105.15)
BB ($164.85)
UTG ($391.80)
UTG+1 ($251.77)
MP1 ($190)
MP2 ($403)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 calls $2, Hero calls $2, Button calls $2, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($10) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets $10</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero ...</font>

Villain is 60/5/2 over nearly 100 hands. Went to showdown is below 20 though, so he's just loose preflop, not post.

[soah]

I usually raise to $30 and bet $50 on the turn and then take a free showdown. If he bets or raises me again at any point I fold. Calling the flop is tricky because some players will put you on a draw/think you're weak and bet again with just a ten on the turn, but others won't. If I have a good read on MP3's turn betting habits I might just call and see what he does.

[tdomeski]

uhhh, fold...you should be happy to see flops with this hand for $2...you should not be happy to play $80 pots with this hand with a pair of aces...

[Big_Jim]

Usually fold. Sometimes, take soah's line.

[beset7]

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Usually fold. Sometimes, take soah's line.

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Same here. Also I'm raising preflop probably 30-40% of the time even after a limper.

[Big_Jim]

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Also I'm raising preflop probably 30-40% of the time even after a limper.

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Limper has to be pretty weak tight/readable for me to want to isolate with A4s.

[beset7]

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Also I'm raising preflop probably 30-40% of the time even after a limper.

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Limper has to be pretty weak tight/readable for me to want to isolate with A4s.

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Yeah. He mentioned a went to showdown in the 20s.

[xorbie]

Eh. I don't want to win a small postflop pot here, I want to make a nut flush or wheel or two pair and I want to win a big one.

[soah]

mmm, folding. I forgot about that option.

[tdomeski]

i really see no reason in playing a pot here with a pair of aces...explain your reasoning?

[soah]

With only one player to act behind him, MP3 could be betting worse hands here as a bluff, semi-bluff, protection, or some combination of bluffing/protection (betting a ten or a pocket pair which he presumes is good). I think that against many opponents your hand will be good here often enough to be worth continuing with. Furthermore, you have position over him in a small pot. Playing your hand aggressively puts a ton of pressure on him. It will be tough to call a big bet on the turn even with some hands that beat you (AJ, etc). Since he is seeing 60% of flops he will more often just hold an ace or ten here than a set. AA and AK are hands he'd almost certainly raise preflop, perhaps TT and AQ as well.

Even if your read on him (tight postflop) turns out to be wrong, you still will end up splitting 1/3 of the time if he calls down with Ad8d or whatever.

[tdomeski]

I think folding &gt; raising &gt; calling.

I mean if you are ahead he is probably very live, if you are behind you are probably barely live if live at all.

If you are raising the flop then betting the turn hard hoping he folds a hand that would split with you or beat you then what does it even matter that you have an Ace? Might as well be no pair no draw that you are bluffing with.

Not to mention you may get c/r by blinds.

[soah]

Having an ace lets you check behind and win sometimes on the river if it turns out he was chasing a flush or makes a very loose calldown.

My opinion on this hand may be prejudiced though by the fact that in my last session I was sitting right behind a very weak/loose player who folded on the turn to me several times when I used this line on him with just draws... I knew he usually wouldn't have a very strong hand there and that he needed a big hand to look me up with (I'd won most hands that were shown down so he thinks I've got a big hand to keep firing with). But this was shorthanded so I guess in full ring the players won't play the flop as aggressively with marginal hands? We really don't have any information on how MP3 plays postflop. I've just gone with the assumption that he'll be betting a wide range there, if that's not the case then folding would certainly be best.

..You gotta know when to fold 'em...know when to walk away...know when to run..

[freehat]

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Eh. I don't want to win a small postflop pot here, I want to make a nut flush or wheel or two pair and I want to win a big one.

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This is flawed thinking you want to maximize your EV in this situation, so winning lots of smaller pots can have a higher expectation of winning that one big pot. Also this guy limped 2 off the button, his hand probably sucks, so raise his ass. Also by raising the pot preflop the pot will now be bigger postflop so when you hit a big hand you have a better chance of being paid off.

[tdomeski]

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This is flawed thinking you want to maximize your EV in this situation

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Ok. Fold.

[xorbie]

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This is flawed thinking you want to maximize your EV in this situation, so winning lots of smaller pots can have a higher expectation of winning that one big pot. Also this guy limped 2 off the button, his hand probably sucks, so raise his ass. Also by raising the pot preflop the pot will now be bigger postflop so when you hit a big hand you have a better chance of being paid off.


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Raising against this guy with this hand is not that great. He's probably open limping a lot of SC, a lot of PP, a lot of Axs himself. I can make him lay down all that stuff postflop if he checks to me with second pair, but if I instead raise suddenly there's a pot to fight about and if I end up with A high I'm not getting paid off, whereas if he ends up beating my pair of aces suddenly I'm stuck playing a much bigger pot than I'd like. I can't imagine what the benefits to raising here are.

In any case, I decided that this is the perfect spot to raise the flop. This guy raises enough preflop to where I can rule out AK, probably AQ, especially given such a late open limp. With such a low went to showdown I don't think this guy is gonna play a big pot with A7 here so I have a ton of FE against his Ax hands and so he's much more likely to call with a /images/graemlins/heart.gif draw than anything else.

[Finwe]

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I think folding &gt; raising &gt; calling.


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[ahnuld]

I six table so I fold this. No time for marginal hands, one of the draw backs of multitablers.

[fathertime]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx


Where do you find the 6 max, 9 handed games? Bet they are really profitable!

[Big_Jim]

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Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx


Where do you find the 6 max, 9 handed games? Bet they are really profitable!

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You're a riot.

Take THAT xorbie.

[sawseech]

not closing the action; throw it away quickly

[TheWorstPlayer]

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I think folding &gt; raising &gt; calling.


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This is insane unless you think you are going to bluff him off a better hand which you won't so it is insane. I think it is close between folding&gt;calling&gt;raising and raising&gt;calling&gt;folding. Really, I think that calling~=raising~=folding and I probably call most of the time and fold the turn if he bets big again.

[BobboFitos]

calling, raising, and folding are all close.

edit: the best choice is opponent dependant and table dependant. and, what your turn play is. (the better you play, the more flexibility calling now gives you rather then raise now to essentially turn your hand into a bluff)

the cold fact is this guy plays every other hand, and bet at a pot next to last. his hand range is very wide. unfortunately, alot of his hands have equity vs you, whereas you will probably neither make a better hand fold nor draw out on a better one. it's tough to label my standard play, as said, because they're all close.

[Hattifnatt]

I would fold.