Play from the blinds: Q5o [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

View Full Version : Play from the blinds: Q5o

Scuba Chuck

12-05-2005, 06:12 PM

BB is a 2+2er, and knows that I am too.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

BB (t600) Ac Ad 
UTG (t620)
UTG+1 (t1085)
MP1 (t1715)
MP2 (t695)
CO (t1755)
Button (t480)
Hero (t1050)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif.
6 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t60) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t55, BB calls t55.

Turn: (t170) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t105, Hero calls t105.

River: (t380) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t215, Hero calls t215.

Final Pot: t810

pineapple888

12-05-2005, 06:25 PM

You took your shot on the flop and it didn't work. Why would you put any more money in?

ZeroPointMachine

12-05-2005, 06:27 PM

I hate everything about this hand. The only thing you beat is complete air or a 3? How does completing because it only costs 15t and pouring 375t in with 2PBK make sense in a 800 chip SNG?

pooh74

12-05-2005, 06:28 PM

By checking the turn, BB can/will assume that you bet the flop with nothing so you are basically giving him free reign often to just take the pot away from you. Firing a second barrel here is also risky because he know the A can scare you off easily (though, what's he checking PF with that cold calls this flop and is helped by the Ace with?). So I feel your pain on the turn, but I probably fire again.

The river is a great card because I think the 6 protects you more times than it helps villain, so if you were worried about the Q with the better kicker or the Q3 possibilities, you are now off the hook, so to speak. I think you win/chop this pot far more often than you lose it outright. Check call on river looks good.

downtown

12-05-2005, 06:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
BB is a 2+2er, and knows that I am too.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

BB (t600) Ac Ad 
UTG (t620)
UTG+1 (t1085)
MP1 (t1715)
MP2 (t695)
CO (t1755)
Button (t480)
Hero (t1050)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif.
6 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t60) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t55, BB calls t55.

Turn: (t170) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t105, Hero calls t105.

River: (t380) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t215, Hero calls t215.

Final Pot: t810

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally I would fold preflop. If I decided to mix it up, I would lead the fop and turn for 3/4 pot of so, and if I were called again on the turn, I would ask myself with what hands that I beat does a short stacked 2+2er call/raise (depending on action) with little or no FE. Then I would shut down quick like and check/fold the river.

I've also made the mistake of getting FPS when in a hand with a 2+2er, and this is a lot what it looks like. And it isn't pretty.

lacky

12-05-2005, 06:52 PM

again, try not to give up the lead in a hand. when you check the turn, you are saying "I dont have an A, hell, I might not of had anything and was hoping to steal, but i'm gonna give up now" so then his turn bet doesnt mean anything either. I'm guessing he bet the turn hoping you would fold, the hit his pair of 6's on the river. But, your check on the turn makes harder to know where you stand.

Scuba Chuck

12-05-2005, 06:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
again, try not to give up the lead in a hand. when you check the turn, you are saying "I dont have an A, hell, I might not of had anything and was hoping to steal, but i'm gonna give up now" so then his turn bet doesnt mean anything either. I'm guessing he bet the turn hoping you would fold, the hit his pair of 6's on the river. But, your check on the turn makes harder to know where you stand.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what's a better line? Again, assume one it's an unknown, and second, assume it's the 2er.

lacky

12-05-2005, 07:13 PM

I would bet the turn, 2/3 pot or so, if raised by a solid conservative player, I'd fold. If called by a solid conservative player, I'd check the river, and hopefully have them check behind, but more likely have to fold to their bet.

Against a loose passive type player, I'd bet the turn still, and definatly fold to a raise, cause they always have you beat if they raise here, and would check fold the river as well.

If you show strength all the way and they are still there, they have you beat or they have something that they don't mind checking behind with.

so...bet the turn, then check fold the river if needed

runner4life7

12-05-2005, 07:25 PM

how can you fold this from the SB? that just seems so wrong.

adanthar

12-05-2005, 08:25 PM

I would raise PF because he's 2+2. The rest looks good.

jeffraider

12-05-2005, 08:49 PM

Nice flop bet, and I'd lead the turn and fold to a raise. If he calls my 2/3 pot turn bet then I check and call a small river bet, fold to a larger one.

tigerite

12-05-2005, 09:46 PM

Scuba! It's Q5s, man.

I agree with adanthar on this one, I would probably raise pf. Against a LAG or fish I'd just fold.

Scuba Chuck

12-05-2005, 11:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You took your shot on the flop and it didn't work. Why would you put any more money in?

[/ QUOTE ]

pinneapple, I know you know you were the one in this hand, but I think the only real question is the river call, not the rest of the play.

pineapple888

12-06-2005, 03:00 PM

pineapple888

12-06-2005, 03:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You took your shot on the flop and it didn't work. Why would you put any more money in?

[/ QUOTE ]

pinneapple, I know you know you were the one in this hand, but I think the only real question is the river call, not the rest of the play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm... it was everyone else posting who questioned your other plays.

FWIW, I agree with Lacky and others that if you are going to stay in the hand at all, you have to bet the turn. I just see no reason to stay in, esp. if it was against me /images/graemlins/grin.gif

schwza

12-06-2005, 04:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
again, try not to give up the lead in a hand. when you check the turn, you are saying "I dont have an A, hell, I might not of had anything and was hoping to steal, but i'm gonna give up now" so then his turn bet doesnt mean anything either.

[/ QUOTE ]

i've read at least 5 posts from good posters who have said things like this in the last week.

i will paraphrase:

your hand is pretty good. when you check, villain thinks your hand is bad, so he will bet with bad hands to try to steal the pot. for some reason you don't want that to happen /images/graemlins/confused.gif

inducing bluffs is good

schwza

12-06-2005, 04:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You took your shot on the flop and it didn't work. Why would you put any more money in?

[/ QUOTE ]

pinneapple, I know you know you were the one in this hand, but I think the only real question is the river call, not the rest of the play.

[/ QUOTE ]

i could go either way on completing pre-flop vs raising, but i agree the flop and turn are the best way to play. river is tough, but i call vs 2+2 and curse if he has a 6. i play the whole thing the same.

pooh74

12-06-2005, 04:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
again, try not to give up the lead in a hand. when you check the turn, you are saying "I dont have an A, hell, I might not of had anything and was hoping to steal, but i'm gonna give up now" so then his turn bet doesnt mean anything either.

[/ QUOTE ]

i've read at least 5 posts from good posters who have said things like this in the last week.

i will paraphrase:

your hand is pretty good. when you check, villain thinks your hand is bad, so he will bet with bad hands to try to steal the pot. for some reason you don't want that to happen /images/graemlins/confused.gif

inducing bluffs is good

[/ QUOTE ]

I said this above...but you took it out of context. I think scuba was concerned about his turn call so I simply said "when you check the turn, villain's bet doesnt mean any strength per se, because, to him, it appears you stabbed at the pot on the flop and are now giving up on the turn."

Whether or not you check this turn is a matter of personal preference but i think betting again is good too. depends on opposition. FWIW, I like the way scuba played this.

schwza

12-06-2005, 04:31 PM

this is a post from lacky, and it's not out of context - it's a whole post.

Scuba Chuck

12-06-2005, 06:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You took your shot on the flop and it didn't work. Why would you put any more money in?

[/ QUOTE ]

pinneapple, I know you know you were the one in this hand, but I think the only real question is the river call, not the rest of the play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was? What happened???

[/ QUOTE ]

You checked your A/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif in the BB.

pooh74

12-06-2005, 06:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You took your shot on the flop and it didn't work. Why would you put any more money in?

[/ QUOTE ]

pinneapple, I know you know you were the one in this hand, but I think the only real question is the river call, not the rest of the play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was? What happened???

[/ QUOTE ]

You checked your A/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif in the BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

ouch...pina coladas anyone?

pineapple888

12-06-2005, 06:38 PM

mlagoo

12-06-2005, 06:38 PM

what about C/Ring the turn and shutting down to any further resistance?

edit: meh, nm. BB doesnt have enough chips in this case to do this. stupid sngs. =)