Question about Isolation Moves

[mojobluesman]

Assume I am on the button or in the CO, one very loose player limps from middle position and I would like to isolate him if possible.

I've been running into a lot of situations where I have a small pair or pretty good high cards, but nothing special and the SB and BB have been playing rather loose. When I go for the isolation, one or both call and I find myself in a position that is not particularly attractive.

Are there some sort of guidlines for the isolation move as far as the blinds playing style goes?

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
Assume I am on the button or in the CO, one very loose player limps from middle position and I would like to isolate him if possible.

I've been running into a lot of situations where I have a small pair or pretty good high cards, but nothing special and the SB and BB have been playing rather loose. When I go for the isolation, one or both call and I find myself in a position that is not particularly attractive.

Are there some sort of guidlines for the isolation move as far as the blinds playing style goes?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, yeah: if the blinds are loose you're probably not going to be able to isolate an EP or MP limper. Raiser, maybe, limper, no.

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
Assume I am on the button or in the CO, one very loose player limps from middle position and I would like to isolate him if possible.

I've been running into a lot of situations where I have a small pair or pretty good high cards, but nothing special and the SB and BB have been playing rather loose. When I go for the isolation, one or both call and I find myself in a position that is not particularly attractive.

Are there some sort of guidlines for the isolation move as far as the blinds playing style goes?

[/ QUOTE ]

hey...
often, when the blinds suck at poker I don't hate the fact that one of them comes along -- and i have to play 3 ways with position instead of headsup.

but yeah, it's nicer/easier when the blinds are tight.

[mojobluesman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Assume I am on the button or in the CO, one very loose player limps from middle position and I would like to isolate him if possible.

I've been running into a lot of situations where I have a small pair or pretty good high cards, but nothing special and the SB and BB have been playing rather loose. When I go for the isolation, one or both call and I find myself in a position that is not particularly attractive.

Are there some sort of guidlines for the isolation move as far as the blinds playing style goes?

[/ QUOTE ]

hey...
often, when the blinds suck at poker I don't hate the fact that one of them comes along -- and i have to play 3 ways with position instead of headsup.

but yeah, it's nicer/easier when the blinds are tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess the ones that are really giving me trouble are the smaller pairs because I want to play them heads up against the fish or not at all.

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Assume I am on the button or in the CO, one very loose player limps from middle position and I would like to isolate him if possible.

I've been running into a lot of situations where I have a small pair or pretty good high cards, but nothing special and the SB and BB have been playing rather loose. When I go for the isolation, one or both call and I find myself in a position that is not particularly attractive.

Are there some sort of guidlines for the isolation move as far as the blinds playing style goes?

[/ QUOTE ]

hey...
often, when the blinds suck at poker I don't hate the fact that one of them comes along -- and i have to play 3 ways with position instead of headsup.

but yeah, it's nicer/easier when the blinds are tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess the ones that are really giving me trouble are the smaller pairs because I want to play them heads up against the fish or not at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

then only isolate when the blinds are tight/weak

[McNeese72]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Assume I am on the button or in the CO, one very loose player limps from middle position and I would like to isolate him if possible.

I've been running into a lot of situations where I have a small pair or pretty good high cards, but nothing special and the SB and BB have been playing rather loose. When I go for the isolation, one or both call and I find myself in a position that is not particularly attractive.

Are there some sort of guidlines for the isolation move as far as the blinds playing style goes?

[/ QUOTE ]

hey...
often, when the blinds suck at poker I don't hate the fact that one of them comes along -- and i have to play 3 ways with position instead of headsup.

but yeah, it's nicer/easier when the blinds are tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess the ones that are really giving me trouble are the smaller pairs because I want to play them heads up against the fish or not at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hadn't you rather play small pairs cheaply with a lot of limpers so that you get paid off when you flop a set with them? Is it that EV+ to try to get heads up with an early limper with them?

Note: I'm a relatively newcomer and have only been playing since April this year.

[mojobluesman]

Is that the way you do it?

[ajm36]

Instead of focusing on isolation, just broaden the range of hands you raise with from this position under these conditions (dump small pairs always). Since the loose players will have a wide range of hands they are playing, raising with things like KJo or K10o, A8o can begin to have positive results. I even occasionally (occasionally) raise Q10o and Q9o here. Remember, you have position here and are the PF aggressor, most flops under these conditions will be checked to you (or at least the MP or EP limper will act first giving you the opportunity for raise which may then isolate). I could be wrong, though.

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
dump small pairs always

[/ QUOTE ]
I see this a lot. There is nothing wrong with blind-stealing or isolating bad players with small pairs.

[jrz1972]

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[ QUOTE ]
dump small pairs always

[/ QUOTE ]
I see this a lot. There is nothing wrong with blind-stealing or isolating bad players with small pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Word to that. A few thousand hands of 6max play really help you appreciate the value of small pairs in these spots.

[mojobluesman]

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dump small pairs always

[/ QUOTE ]
I see this a lot. There is nothing wrong with blind-stealing or isolating bad players with small pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Word to that. A few thousand hands of 6max play really help you appreciate the value of small pairs in these spots.

[/ QUOTE ]

But do you have to limit it to situations where you know the bonds are kind of tight and will fold?

I hate holding 22, 33, 44, 55, 66 in a pot I raised against 2-3 opponents instead of just 1!

[jrz1972]

Let's say you have 66. A fish limps, you raise from the button hoping to isolate, but sadly the BB calls. No big deal. You already have a made hand, whereas they have to hit the flop to beat you, which is not easy to do. Your raise also should buy you some fold equity.

Yeah sure, if you raise with 55 or somesuch and show it down, you'll often end up looking foolish when BB takes the pot with his 3rd pair of split 7s, but in the long run I'm pretty confident that this play shows a profit.

Look at it this way. You would definitely open-raise 44 on the button. If both blinds call, your situation is pretty much the same as the situation where you try an isolation play. In fact, the isolation play is a little better since the limper just open-limped whereas when you open-raise two players are semi-coldcalling.

Often I will limp behind with a hand like 33 or even 77 but raise a hand like K10. 33 really doesn't have any more showdown power than J7 but it is great at winning big pots infrequently. Same with A6s. These are hands I love playing against bad opponents but not always for a raise.

[mojobluesman]

Got ya! Thanks.

[Aaron W.]

What's missing from this conversation? How about some postflop reads?

If the blinds are weak-tight/passive postflop, I don't mind them being in the pot with me because I have position and can often get a free card or two if I think I need it (or a free showdown). Against weak-tight players, I can auto-bet the flop in position and often take the pot down. If I don't take the pot down, I can usually narrow their hand ranges.

Aggro and loose villains in the blinds make blinds steals significantly more difficult.