can i push i out a weak ace here?

[jsnipes28]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Hero ($91.55)
SB ($41.60)
BB ($31.30)
UTG ($216.75)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls $1, Hero calls $1, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($4) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif [color=#0000FF](4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets $3</font>, SB calls $3, BB folds, UTG folds.

Turn: ($10) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
SB checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets $50
I had made this play against a short stack earlier with a full house so i feel like i have a lot of equity here, plus i can always suck out with 2pair/flush outs. Or do you like a check behind and try to value bet the river if i hit?

[wdeadwyler]

Wow, just wow. So bad. I hope villain called you with red 10's.

[beavens]

the same thing can be accomplished with a much smaller bet, correct?

you're putting way too much into a small pot when you most likely are behind - doesn't this seem like a bad idea?

[jsnipes28]

Yea i thought it was a bad play, i was just asking because in the hand i bet 9, he called, and i checked behind on river and he flipped A3, and i thought to myself i bet i could have pushed him out

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
Yea i thought it was a bad play, i was just asking because in the hand i bet 9, he called, and i checked behind on river and he flipped A3, and i thought to myself i bet i could have pushed him out

[/ QUOTE ]

If he flipped over aces up, I doubt you were pushing him out without the flush draw hitting.

[orange]

Why not check the turn?

[ajmargarine]

[ QUOTE ]
Yea i thought it was a bad play, i was just asking because in the hand i bet 9, he called

[/ QUOTE ]

...check behind on the turn. When a blind c/c's like this in a limped pot/dry flop, it's usually a weak ace. You gave it a shot, now take the free card.

[jsnipes28]

yea checking the turn seems like it would have been the optimal play, i just feel like ive been checking way too many turns lately with decent holdings.

[wdeadwyler]

[ QUOTE ]
Why not check the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

yea, and take a free card with anywhere from 9-14 outs? Why charge yourself. Why bet 2.5xpot? Why?

[nyc999]

In my experience, those willing to call with weak aces pre-flop are more than willing to call with them post-flop (albeit mostly off-suit weak aces).

i hate you line here.

you bet $50 into a $10 pot that was unraised preflop, so you basically have no idea what villain has. also sounds like you have little to no read on villain. he could easily flip over aces up, a set, etc.

fold preflop.

--solids

[jsnipes28]

Solid, you didn't read the whole post, it was a hypothetical "what if". I was gauging the value of that play (which i didnt make) which seems to be not so good EV.

hmm ok. well then, i don't like your hypotheical line.

yeah you are probably right. your play is -EV. i'm not bashing you as a poker player, just saying you are commited a lot of money into a probable coin flip situation. in this line, it's hard to put villain on any type of hand. a weak ace might be a possibility, but then again, several players at this level won't even give up a weak ace.

i would either fold or raise preflop, depending on my table image and reads. contiuation bet the flop. if i get a caller, check the turn and hope to improve on the river.

but hey, that's just me...

--solids

[kurto]

Yes... you can fold out a weak ace. Though if you're betting wildly all the time, you're going to get called eventually.

For the record; these kind of overbets are very suspicious and, I think, only going to hurt you in the long run. There was a guy at my table last week who was massively overbetting draws and some semi-strong hands. He took down a few pots here and there. Then, I got a free blind with J8, flopped top 2 pair bet out, he did his massive overbet thing... I pushed. He had bottom 2 pair and I stacked him.

My point... at some point you're going to get called. Then, you'll be sorry you were willing to invest $50 to try to steal a $10 pot. Sure, sometimes when you get called, you might hit your flush (and sometimes, the other guy could have the nut flush)...

Unless this works better then 5 times out of 6, I suspect it will be -ev.

[jsnipes28]

i agree w/ you. I guess i pose this because ive had a lot of success with overbets in the last couple of days with slight overbets on turn/river with the nuts against players with 40-60 bb's. But that is also because they are calling which would make this worse.

If players at the table have seen me make this play, is this gross overbet with pair+draw that bad?

[Mercman572]

Terrible spot to push off a hand for several reasons:
1) Pot is small
2) You limped on the button, would an opponent perceive you as likely to do this with an Ace?
3) Your LP bet when checked to on the flop is likely to be seen as a steal
4) People hold onto a paired Ace with a death grip.
5) Perfect opportunity to take a free card; your hand is disguised since it would be a runner-runner flush.

[ QUOTE ]

If players at the table have seen me make this play, is this gross overbet with pair+draw that bad?

[/ QUOTE ]


if you value money, yes it is.

trust me amigo, this play is -EV in the long run. no reason to risk that much money on a draw with little information on villain's hand when you don't have to. the risk does not equal the reward.

--solids