$400 6max: I flop top two pair but I hate my hand

[einbert]

I had a couple of pretty good reads in this hand. The button is a fairly loose and aggressive player, who pays off too much after the flop. He gets stacked with overpairs and TPTK too much, in my opinion.

MP, however, is tight and mostly passive. His preflop statistics are about 32/6. He is pretty weak after the flop in that he doesn't tend to play big pots without very big hands, and his play is basically straightforward as far as I've seen.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Hero ($458.70)
MP ($1328.12)
Button ($616.93)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $4, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $10</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $6, MP calls $6.

Flop: ($32) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $30.4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $100</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $200</font>, Button calls $169.60, Action is on Hero

At this point I put button on an overpair, with also the possibility of AJ. I put MP on a set. In fact, I really don't see what else MP can have besides a set. Do you put them on different hands than I do? What is your play?

Also do you play the flop differently the first time?

[scdavis0]

Pre flop call is kinda iffy.. I would far from hate my hand in this situation.

SHOVE

[Hattifnatt]

Lead flop and hope button raises so you can 3-bet. As played I probably push.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
Pre flop call is kinda iffy.. I would far from hate my hand in this situation.

SHOVE

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the main reasons I called preflop is the tendency of the button to stack off with an overpair/top pair top kicker.

Glad to know you guys support the eventual action that I took (I pushed), but I am still wondering. What hands do you put MP on that we can beat?

[ninjia3x]

Preflop call is fine, u gotta punish those minish raisers by stacking them with suited gapers.

If you say mp is as passive as he is, I don't see many hands that you beat that he plays this agressively, other than maybe 89 of diamonds. (again, I don't see mp reraising with 67.

Against any avg opponent i can see a push, but if mp is tight and passive...i'd consider folding here. Unless he is really sneaky.

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
Pre flop call is kinda iffy.. I would far from hate my hand in this situation.

SHOVE

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Lead flop and hope button raises so you can 3-bet. As played I probably push.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying I disagree with you guys but I was wondering if you could spell out what range you put MP on and why what looks like is going to be a three-way all-in is really the best result? He limped in MP and then went nuts on this flop. What hands is that consistent with from your experience with similar players?

If MP can only have a set, TP+flush draw, or two pair this looks pretty nasty to me even 3-ways with dead money. If you remove bottom two from the range it gets even worse. Analysis? I have a hard time with this type of situation and I often fold here.

Just a little pokerstove food for thought:

Board: Jd 7d 6c
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 14.6456 % 14.65% 00.00% { Js7s }
Hand 2: 74.5847 % 74.58% 00.00% { 77-66, KdJd, QdJd, JdTd }
Hand 3: 10.7697 % 10.77% 00.00% { QQ+ }

[beset7]

bumpkus

[iceman5]

[ QUOTE ]
I had a couple of pretty good reads in this hand. The button is a fairly loose and aggressive player, who pays off too much after the flop. He gets stacked with overpairs and TPTK too much, in my opinion.

MP, however, is tight and mostly passive. His preflop statistics are about 32/6. He is pretty weak after the flop in that he doesn't tend to play big pots without very big hands, and his play is basically straightforward as far as I've seen.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Hero ($458.70)
MP ($1328.12)
Button ($616.93)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $4, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $10</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $6, MP calls $6.

Flop: ($32) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $30.4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $100</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $200</font>, Button calls $169.60, Action is on Hero

At this point I put button on an overpair, with also the possibility of AJ. I put MP on a set. In fact, I really don't see what else MP can have besides a set. Do you put them on different hands than I do? What is your play?

Also do you play the flop differently the first time?

[/ QUOTE ]

You check raise the flop, your check raised gets reraised and the button cold calls all of that? Time to bail out dude.

You guys saying to push are maniacs. And I mean that with love.

[illunious]

[ QUOTE ]

Board: Jd 7d 6c
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 14.6456 % 14.65% 00.00% { Js7s }
Hand 2: 74.5847 % 74.58% 00.00% { 77-66, KdJd, QdJd, JdTd }
Hand 3: 10.7697 % 10.77% 00.00% { QQ+ }

[/ QUOTE ]

Jd hands aren't possible... doesn't PokerStove catch this?

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>Board: Jd 7d 6c
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 46.6740 % 44.33% 02.34% { Js7s }
Hand 2: 34.2199 % 31.79% 02.43% { QQ+, 77-66, J7s }
Hand 3: 19.1061 % 18.90% 00.21% { JJ+, 77-66, KJs, QJs,
JTs, AJo, KJo, QJo, JTo } </pre><hr />

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre> Board: Jd 7d 6c
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 27.4595 % 21.40% 06.06% { Js7s }
Hand 2: 58.1961 % 52.19% 06.00% { 77-66, Ad6d, J7s-J6s, 9d8d }
Hand 3: 14.3443 % 14.28% 00.06% { JJ+, 77-66, KJs, QJs,
JTs, AJo, KJo, QJo, JTo } </pre><hr />

[Bukem_]

[ QUOTE ]


MP, however, is tight and mostly passive. His preflop statistics are about 32/6. He is pretty weak after the flop in that he doesn't tend to play big pots without very big hands, and his play is basically straightforward as far as I've seen.




[/ QUOTE ]

Fold.

[tradingman123]

if MP is as passive as you say, i think this is a fold. what is your image, have you been very LAG? Even then, MP may not be aggressive enuf to make a play here. I put MP on 77/66 here a lot (more 66, as you have a 7).

[sthief09]

one thing that i havent seen anyone mention, is that even if we are ahead of MP, the button has outs to beat us. he has 5 outs ont he flop and 8 on the turn. if he has AJ then he has 5 and 5. so not only are you not necessarily good, but when you are good they will have outs against you. when you are no good, the best case scenario is you have 4 outs. since he is tight and passive, can he have a flush draw? with my minimal nl experience it would seem that he has a set or maaaaaybe 76s or 8d9d

[barongreenback]

I think you're in trouble here. 76 is possible but that's all you really like to see. I wouldn't expect to see a draw too often.