JJ overpair facing aggression

[beavens]

villain is 73/18/.66 over 180 hands. no real reads, but he likes to play a lot of hands (obviously)

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

BB ($48.75)
UTG ($98.08)
MP ($91.02)
CO ($52.25)
Hero ($95.55)
SB ($41.75)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $4</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls $3.50, MP folds, CO calls $3.50.

Flop: ($13.25) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $8</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero ???

raises and folds to resistance?

[2PAUL2]

i would say your in the lead. he most likely has an ATish sort of hand. looks WA/WB to me an usually WA. i would call and evaluate the turn based on villains reaction to what falls. i prolly make a small raise on the turn looking for a free showdown as well.

another option is to raise the flop, check the turn an call any river bet.

a read would of been nice but i think your main aim is to get to showdown without your whole stack going in.

paul

Make it $20-$22 and reevaluate if called. If he 3bets, fold.

I would just call. I really don't want to bloat this pot, especially not with the stacks the two of you have. I would then call reasonable bets on both turn and river, unless the board comes down really bad.

Dumle

[beavens]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

BB ($48.75)
UTG ($98.08)
MP ($91.02)
CO ($52.25)
Hero ($95.55)
SB ($41.75)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $4</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls $3.50, MP folds, CO calls $3.50.

Flop: ($13.25) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $8</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $30</font>.

[Brad F.]

Alright, I'd like to define villian's range and then move on from there.

Villian seems to be extremely LAGGY. That being said, the lag could have 7-10 through A-10 here and be betting out with top pair. If he's EXTREMELY loose and fishy, I guess we could put a 10-5, 10-3 or 3-5 in the realm of possibility but I really doubt it.

There is no real draw other than the straight draw. A LAG player could bet out with A-2 through A-5 here.

Those are the possiblities in which he caught a part of the flop. He very well could have absolute air here as well.

You are behind a wierd two-pair or a set here. I don't think he has an overpair due to the lack of a raise PF.

So I really feel as if you are ahead here most of the time.

I'd raise to $24. It lets the villian know that you are serious about your hand. With no other reads than his loose nature, this hand could get difficult by the turn. So raise on the flop and be happy to take it down.

If he smoothcalls, I raise many turns. If he reraises on the flop, I think I call and stack his inferior pair.

Hope this helps.

Brad

[4_2_it]

Okay, what's your plan if he re-raises? What do you bet on a turn blank? A turn over card?

Looks like a train wreck is getting ready to happen. I just don't know which train is going to run off the tracks........Did you consider calling to keep the pot small?????

calling to keep the pot small becomes a problem when a card come thats completes the straight, another 10, an overcard, etc.

I like the raise on the flop, and fold to a reraise.

[Brad F.]

Good move, what did the villian do?

Brad

[beavens]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, what's your plan if he re-raises? What do you bet on a turn blank? A turn over card?

Looks like a train wreck is getting ready to happen. I just don't know which train is going to run off the tracks........Did you consider calling to keep the pot small?????

[/ QUOTE ]

if he reraises then i would probably run away with my tail between my legs.

if he calls and:

1.) blank turn - i push
2.) overcard - depends on his bet size or if i can check behind.. might even considering pushing if checked to

from what i gathered, this guy was not a good player.

i understand what youre saying about keeping the pot small, but i think in this situation a raise gives me a lot more control of the hand, especially since he's so passive postflop.

[Brad F.]

So, what did the villian do once you reraised?

Brad

I certainly raise here. Way too many cards I would be playing guessing games with on the turn.

[beavens]

[ QUOTE ]
So, what did the villian do once you reraised?

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

villain folded to my reraise and i took the pot.

not the most interesting of hands, but i'm pretty glad that i was able to get the pot without having to make a tough turn or river decision.

[ajmargarine]

I would think a raise to $22 or so would accomplish your goals in the hand just as well as $30.

[beavens]

[ QUOTE ]
I would think a raise to $22 or so would accomplish your goals in the hand just as well as $30.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed - i think that i was going for something closer to the new pot that screamed overpair.

visually seeing $30 can make a difference than seeing $22, but i definitely see your points in the monetary amount itself bringing the same results.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Okay, what's your plan if he re-raises? What do you bet on a turn blank? A turn over card?

Looks like a train wreck is getting ready to happen. I just don't know which train is going to run off the tracks........Did you consider calling to keep the pot small?????

[/ QUOTE ]

if he reraises then i would probably run away with my tail between my legs.

if he calls and:

1.) blank turn - i push
2.) overcard - depends on his bet size or if i can check behind.. might even considering pushing if checked to

from what i gathered, this guy was not a good player.

i understand what youre saying about keeping the pot small, but i think in this situation a raise gives me a lot more control of the hand, especially since he's so passive postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds fine. The only that didn't click was if villain is passive why did you feel a need to take control? I can see trying to do that with a maniac or a good player, but if villain will value bet his way to the river that might not be a bad thing. It also allows you to raise if a scare care hits.

Not saying your line is bad, I think it is pretty much standard (so far), but would be curious to get your thoughts on calling down. Sure it looks weak, but if looking weak wins you the most money then I would prefer to look weak.

[beavens]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Okay, what's your plan if he re-raises? What do you bet on a turn blank? A turn over card?

Looks like a train wreck is getting ready to happen. I just don't know which train is going to run off the tracks........Did you consider calling to keep the pot small?????

[/ QUOTE ]

if he reraises then i would probably run away with my tail between my legs.

if he calls and:

1.) blank turn - i push
2.) overcard - depends on his bet size or if i can check behind.. might even considering pushing if checked to

from what i gathered, this guy was not a good player.

i understand what youre saying about keeping the pot small, but i think in this situation a raise gives me a lot more control of the hand, especially since he's so passive postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds fine. The only that didn't click was if villain is passive why did you feel a need to take control? I can see trying to do that with a maniac or a good player, but if villain will value bet his way to the river that might not be a bad thing. It also allows you to raise if a scare care hits.

Not saying your line is bad, I think it is pretty much standard (so far), but would be curious to get your thoughts on calling down. Sure it looks weak, but if looking weak wins you the most money then I would prefer to look weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

ah, you're right. if he's passive then i shouldn't have to worry about getting in the driver's seat.

guess i was afraid of his overcards sucking out on me. would you recommend calling down and acting on the river if i put him on such a hand that hadn't hit?

just seems like asking for disaster in an inflated pot.

[bizaff]

[ QUOTE ]
Villian seems to be extremely LAGGY.

[/ QUOTE ]

73/18/.66 over 180 hands is LAG? That's awfully low aggression.

I can see either calling or raising. If he reraises, you're done. If you call and blanks (non-pairing or non-overcards) hit, you can keep calling and keep letting him (hopefully) bluff. Since there's so many cards you don't much like (3 T, 3 3, 3 5, 4 A, 4 K, 4 Q = 21) just calling is a bit iffy. Since his aggression is so low, that lends a little more credence to just calling as the straight cards (2, 4, 6) don't scare you so much.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]

guess i was afraid of his overcards sucking out on me. would you recommend calling down and acting on the river if i put him on such a hand that hadn't hit?

just seems like asking for disaster in an inflated pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

If an over card comes on the turn and he doesn't react then I might be more inclined to raise planning to fold to a re-raise or check down the river. If nothing hits and he keeps bloating the pot I just keep calling.

My plan with an overpair when a villain starts betting is to get to a cheap showdown. Unless I have AA or KK I really do not like pushing with a TT-QQ hand here. You can build a nice pot that you can get away from if villain wakes up. Also, this a potential WA/WB situation. I tend to keep pots smaller when I do not know which end of the spectrum I am on.

Again, I don't really hate your raise. You have to balance several competing factors in a hand like this. It's more important to have more than one tool in your toolbox to choose from in this type of situation.

[beavens]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

guess i was afraid of his overcards sucking out on me. would you recommend calling down and acting on the river if i put him on such a hand that hadn't hit?

just seems like asking for disaster in an inflated pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

If an over card comes on the turn and he doesn't react then I might be more inclined to raise planning to fold to a re-raise or check down the river. If nothing hits and he keeps bloating the pot I just keep calling.

My plan with an overpair when a villain starts betting is to get to a cheap showdown. Unless I have AA or KK I really do not like pushing with a TT-QQ hand here. You can build a nice pot that you can get away from if villain wakes up. Also, this a potential WA/WB situation. I tend to keep pots smaller when I do not know which end of the spectrum I am on.

Again, I don't really hate your raise. You have to balance several competing factors in a hand like this. It's more important to have more than one tool in your toolbox to choose from in this type of situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, thx for the advice and i'll try to keep the pot control idea in mind. definitely an aspect of my game that needs tweaking.