Play from the blinds: T7o

[Scuba Chuck]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

MP2 (t1510)
CO (t115)
Button (t845)
Hero (t760)
BB (t755)
UTG (t2295)
UTG+1 (t770)
MP1 (t950)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, Hero completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t60</font>, Hero calls t30.

Flop: (t120) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets t50</font>, Hero calls t50.

Turn: (t220) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks.

River: (t220) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t200</font>

[splashpot]

I fold this at pretty much every opportunity. I don't complete, fold to his raise PF, check/fold the flop, check/fold the turn, check/fold the river.

[runner4life7]

i minraise and bet the flop if he flat calls my minraise

[splashpot]

[ QUOTE ]
i minraise and bet the flop if he flat calls my minraise

[/ QUOTE ]
What?? How does this make sense?

[Femto]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold this at pretty much every opportunity. I don't complete, fold to his raise PF, check/fold the flop, check/fold the turn, check/fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]agreed

[psyduck]

WTF?

I fold preflop, check/fold on the flop, check/fold on the river.

I mean, do you do this every time it's folded to you in the SB? If the opponent was a weak-tight only-concentrate-on-bubble 2+2er, then you should raise to T100 PF to try to take it down there itself. But even that seems like spewage this early.

Just fold man /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Maulik]

I think representing an Ace here, is spewwing chips. Furthermore a king isn't folding... the only hand you beat is air &amp; a 6.

[jeffraider]

This hand is poop!

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
I think representing an Ace here, is spewwing chips. Furthermore a king isn't folding... the only hand you beat is air &amp; a 6.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmm. I was representing a king ...I thought???

[splashpot]

Sorry, I don't know how much experience you have with SNGs. Did you just switch over from ring games? I only ask because it seems like you're getting way too fancy with these hands. It's better to stick with value bets in these things during early levels.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I don't know how much experience you have with SNGs. Did you just switch over from ring games? I only ask because it seems like you're getting way too fancy with these hands. It's better to stick with value bets in these things during early levels.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL.

[splashpot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I don't know how much experience you have with SNGs. Did you just switch over from ring games? I only ask because it seems like you're getting way too fancy with these hands. It's better to stick with value bets in these things during early levels.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't mean anything by it, I know you've posted here for a long time. But hands like this one seem very obvious to me. To be honest, I expected you to know better.

No offense, dude. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[runner4life7]

works almost everytime thats how it makes sense, its my patented move.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
works almost everytime thats how it makes sense, its my patented move.

[/ QUOTE ]

Minraise in this spot would be balls. Why not make it 90 if you're set on raising?

As for the hand, if you're going to call the flop I think you have to bet the turn. Waiting till the river lets him convince himself to call with too many hands. That river card is awful for you too. I'd probably give up if I got there like you did.

Trying to represent trips isn't usually a great plan. It's akin to trying to take someone off top pair.

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold this at pretty much every opportunity. I don't complete, fold to his raise PF, check/fold the flop, check/fold the turn, check/fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same here. At 15/30 especially

[tigerite]

And sorry Scuba but this is Fancy Play Syndrome.. please stop it

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
And sorry Scuba but this is Fancy Play Syndrome.. please stop it

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah true. I'm only stop and going this with a good read, and even then it's not routine at all. I think you are trying to be too fancy in all these posts.

[runner4life7]

i think folding is a leak, at least at the 20s and 30s. Not sure if I should give out my "secrets" but minraise and a bet of 65 lvl 2 works honestly over 80% of the time. The reason i minraise not 90 is because if i get played back i can fold and not lose as much. Also, I can bet smaller on the flop to push him out.

[ QUOTE ]

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, Hero completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t60</font>, Hero calls t30.

Flop: (t120) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets t50</font>, Hero calls t50.



[/ QUOTE ]

Value calling with ten high? If you want to get involved here because you think he has nothing, raise. Villian's read it as "oh, he checkraised me with his three kings, damn" and give it up. Also, I'd probably lean toward just folding preflop.

[tigerite]

No it's not a leak, this is 15/30, why do you need the 45 chips? You have crap - just let it go.

[runner4life7]

a lot of times im getting 75 out of this. I swear someone posted how much like 15 or 50 chips extra starting with changes. +ev is +ev. I dont like the idea of its just 45 chips you dont need them. I would do this with 32o

[tigerite]

Oh, dear.

Well keep doing it with 32o then - it's wrong.

[runner4life7]

its wrong if the players arent retarded and know they have 3:1 odds, so if its a player i know is smart, which is rare i dont do it. But i think ive done this over 100 times and had amazing success with any 2. I do it with AK the same way.

[splashpot]

[ QUOTE ]
a lot of times im getting 75 out of this. I swear someone posted how much like 15 or 50 chips extra starting with changes. +ev is +ev. I dont like the idea of its just 45 chips you dont need them. I would do this with 32o

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm almost sure your line is -EV. -EV is -EV.

[tigerite]

Sigh.. you're not listening are you?

Risk/reward mean anything? I bet you it's -$EV overall to do this.

[splashpot]

Wait. So if it's folded to you in SB level 2, you min-raise pretty much every time?? I'm 100% sure this is a leak.

[tigerite]

Forget it splash, he thinks he's found the answer to all SNG play and won't listen when he's told something is a leak or -$EV, he just will keep doing it anyway.

His money, his choice.

[runner4life7]

im trying to listen i really am, but with regards to risk/reward thats the reason i minraise and not 90. So i put out 45 to win 45 lets so they fold 20% of the time, which i wouldnt be surprised if its higher. So 20% of the time i gain 45 chips. Then on the flop i bet 65 and they fold 80% of the time, which i swear they do it seems. Then 64% of the time I gain 75 chips. The other 16% of the time I will lose 110. Which is expected value 39.4 chips if I did that right I think. So there is room for me to be off. Of course this assumes that I am done if called on the flop, but also doesnt factor in when i have a hand on the flop. Also, I neglected reraises PF as they are rare and I dont lose much because its an easy fold.

[runner4life7]

have you tried it? I'm sure when people were first told to push 32o in the sb with 7BBs they were like that must be -EV.

I'm not saying mine is right, because its quite possible im way off, but from my experience it seems right, that is all.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
I would do this with 32o


[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
i think ive done this over 100 times

[/ QUOTE ]

This experiment can't have been going on very long then. I just don't get this play. Hey, maybe you're right, but I would bet a good portion of my bankroll that min raising with 32o there is not a winner. There just seem to be too many reasons to get into why this is so, but it also just seems so blatantly obvious that I don't feel like I really need to get into this anyways. I'm not trying to flame you or anything. Hey, you have an idea and you're bringing it to the forum. Sweet. I just don't think it's a good one.

[runner4life7]

Yeah, it is new and I think I am going to keep track from now on no this how often it works to give me a way to "study" I didnt used to go as low as 23o at first but then when I thought that I would do with T7o or 65s with the main reason because I think he will fold not that I will hit, why not do any two? Ill try and get like a 500 sample after this month and tell you how off I was.

[ QUOTE ]
Forget it splash, he thinks he's found the answer to all SNG play and won't listen when he's told something is a leak or -$EV, he just will keep doing it anyway.

His money, his choice.

[/ QUOTE ]
You and splash have both told him it's -$EV, but neither of you have told him why.

I'm pretty sure that it's -$EV because when people realize what he is doing, they will start reraising PF and calling (or raising) post-flop. His play may be working because this is how some people slow-play strong hands at the lower buy-ins. Once people catch on to what he's doing, it won't work nearly as often.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
His play may be working because this is how some people slow-play strong hands at the lower buy-ins. Once people catch on to what he's doing, it won't work nearly as often.

[/ QUOTE ]

They aren't that smart. However, they are also not smart enough to realize he is slowplaying and then fold, so it's a wash.

Scuba, as to this hand I would give up the bluff on the river because you are getting called by his ace. Any other river and it's fine.

[wuwei]

When bluff calling the flop oop, I think you have to lead the turn.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
When bluff calling the flop oop, I think you have to lead the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, that's what I was thinking. So, by this measure, make a smallish bet on the turn, and a big bet on the river?

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When bluff calling the flop oop, I think you have to lead the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, that's what I was thinking. So, by this measure, make a smallish bet on the turn, and a big bet on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'd bet 3/4 pot on the turn and that's the last chip I put into this pot. I don't think villian can call that much on the turn without a K and fold the river enough to make it profitable.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
No, I'd bet 3/4 pot on the turn and that's the last chip I put into this pot. I don't think villian can call that much on the turn without a K and fold the river enough to make it profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. If you were going to bluff, that would be the street.

FWIW, I like raising or completing PF but would probably just bet this flop - fewer cards for him to have caught, and at a 33 he won't call you with less than A high.