Play from the blinds: J8s

[Scuba Chuck]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

CO (t920)
Button (t1525) <font color="white"> Qs 2h </font>
SB (t410)
Hero (t520)
UTG (t700)
UTG+1 (t1000)
MP1 (t1025)
MP2 (t1115)
MP3 (t785)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 calls t30, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls t30, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t120) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t30</font>, SB calls t30, Hero calls t30, MP3 folds.

Turn: (t210) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t30</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t175</font>, Button calls t145.

River: (t560) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks ???

[handsome]

I lead the flop 100% of the time. Then the rest of the hand is easy.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
I lead the flop 100% of the time. Then the rest of the hand is easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you lead if the flop was not two tone?

[xJMPx]

I think I probably value bet this. His small bets combined with the call of your re-raise makes me think flush draw which means that A likely hit his hand. I think you'll get call here often enough from a weaker hand to make it worth a bet.

[rwesty]

All-in and expect a call from an A.

[psyduck]

Lead the flop.

The way you played it, just push the river.

A lot of these 'play from the blinds' hands make NO sense at all. I mean, if there's anything special about the villain that caused you to do something different, then post those specific reads. If not, your default lines are pretty bad.

[player1]

how bad is folding PF? still learning...

in your case though, i'll usually bet 150ish on the river.

jc

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I lead the flop 100% of the time. Then the rest of the hand is easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you lead if the flop was not two tone?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes

Bet flop!!! No one will believe you have a jack and you can pwn them.

[ QUOTE ]
how bad is folding PF? still learning...

[/ QUOTE ]He's in the BB this time and no one has raised, so it didn't cost him anything to see the flop.

[Hornacek]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I lead the flop 100% of the time. Then the rest of the hand is easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you lead if the flop was not two tone?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes

Bet flop!!! No one will believe you have a jack and you can pwn them.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Melchiades]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet flop!!! No one will believe you have a jack and you can pwn them.

[/ QUOTE ]

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bet flop!!! No one will believe you have a jack and you can pwn them.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

They still need a hand to call you. I think this is one of those spots where not leading trips is just fine.

[Melchiades]

They will call with ace high or any pocket pair. If nobody has any of those hands you are not getting any action anyway.

[player1]

silly me, let's say he was in the SB, like i mistakenly assumed, how bad is folding? i always fold with limpers thinking that i could be dominated.

thanks,
jc

[wuwei]

In general, people tend to check trips in the BB more often then they should. I like betting this flop because of the flush draw and the high number of opponents. The manner you played it, you've pretty clearly announced your hand on the turn if anyone is listening.

The river could be an interesting spot. I see 3 possible hands that call the turn. A J always calls. Flush draws often call. A donkey with an A will also call at times, even thogh you pretty much smacked him in the face and said you had a J. You aren't getting any more value out of a lone flush draw. An A that called the turn will call a lot of bets on the river. Obviously a J is calling or raising, and if he has a J there's a slight chance you're chopping. If you were deeper, I would give some thought to checking, but as it stands your short stack makes the river straightforward. Shove.

Wow I would almost never lead this flop, I'd probably check-call it, check raise the turn and push the river. Interesting stuff.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
silly me, let's say he was in the SB, like i mistakenly assumed, how bad is folding? i always fold with limpers thinking that i could be dominated.

thanks,
jc

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not planning to get the chips in on a J-high or 8-high board with J8s. You're planning to make a straight or a flush or two pair and stack AJ type of hands.

[Hornacek]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bet flop!!! No one will believe you have a jack and you can pwn them.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

They still need a hand to call you. I think this is one of those spots where not leading trips is just fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

on a rainbow board, not betting is MAYBE ok, but checking on this board allows a flush draw to see the turn for free.

that is BAD.

[1C5]

[ QUOTE ]
how bad is folding PF? still learning...

jc

[/ QUOTE ]

Good idea to fold PF. Even though you see a flop for free and have infinity implied odds, I still like the fold. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[player1]

[ QUOTE ]
You're not planning to get the chips in on a J-high or 8-high board with J8s. You're planning to make a straight or a flush or two pair and stack AJ type of hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

i see your point. but surely, you're not suggesting check/folding all the time when it's a J or 8 high flop. don't we have to find out if we might have the best hand by putting some chips into the pot on SOME occasions (ex: calling a small late position bet ...)?

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]


on a rainbow board, not betting is MAYBE ok, but checking on this board allows a flush draw to see the turn for free.

that is BAD.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you worried about the flush?

[player1]

instead of J8s, is it correct to fold if:

-he had J8o?
-the BB is 50, or 100, or 150, or ...

thanks,
jc

[1C5]

jc,
he is in the Big Blind which means it is FREE for him to see a flop with ANY 2 cards. Doesn't costs any money.

[tewall]

If there's only a couple of opponents, and you're the first one in, you could lead at the pot, something like 50%-75% (I like the lower end of this range) and see what happens. You'd like to take it down right there. You want to be very cautious; maybe take one shot, and then let it go if you get action. If you're lucky it might get checked down (assuming you're just called on the flop) or you could face a small enough bet on the river (or microbets on the turn and river; than can happen) that you can call, but you don't want to commit many chips at all to this hand.

[microbet]

Despite being named Microbet, there's no way I start a hand with 520 chips, flop trips, and don't figure out how to get all my chips in the middle.

[tewall]

He was asking about a Jack high or 8 high flop, not trips. Take a look at the post to which I was responding to.

Certainly your comment is true for trips.

[microbet]

My apologies. At work I have to ssh and use Lynx (a non-graphical browser) and it is more difficult to see who responded to whom. I know that's not a great excuse, but that's all I got.

[tewall]

No problem. It would indeed be strange advice for playing trips given the stack sizes.

[adanthar]

Yeah...at some point you had better get the chips in, and with 5 people there that point is the flop.

PS: Come on, he doesn't always have a jack, bet the river.

[lacky]

the flop check makes no sense if you weren't trying to check raise. the river check makes no sence after the turn check raise.

lead the flop, 3/4 pot or so. Lead the turn with a 2/3 or so pot bet, hoping to look weak and get raised by an ace, if so push. if someone has stayed to the river, bet what you think they will call. If someone has a full house or the case J better kicker or K10 and hit the inside straight, say "this [censored]'s rigged, stupid game" and open the next one.

[player1]

in my previous post, i mistakenly assumed that he was the SB and came up with a question based on that. i guess my question has more to do with which hands in general to complete with from the SB and if the current level should factor in. (ex: BB=30 vs. BB=150)

[sng-sam]

Buy in?????

FWIW I can't check this flop ever. With your line I bet the river prolly 2/3 pot or push.

Straight Flushes,

SAM