Most Intelligent US President?

[adios]

Haven't thought about this one too much. Dubya, Clinton, Daddy Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, LBJ, JFK, Eisenhauer, FDR, Hoover, Coolidge, Harding, Wilson, Teddy (I think that covers 20 & 21st centuries)? Honestly I'm not that familiar with the particulars of 19th century presidents.

I guess I'd have to pick Wilson.

[Jimbo]

I pick Carter, you did say intelligent not smart right?

[Cyrus]

[adios]

Interesting response. I thought it would be clear given the debate about dubya's intelligence /forums/images/icons/smile.gif. Use the 'measuring stick' that you'd use to measure dubya's intelligence with. Reagan is generally considered to be not too bright so maybe that would help. I would say that it would have something to do with intellectual accoplishments.

[adios]

[scalf]

/forums/images/icons/mad.gif thomas jefferson....no one close....ben franklin, maybe in that leagur, but not a dead president, but on the 100 bill...lol..gl /forums/images/icons/club.gif

[Men the Master]

According to the book Presidents for Dummies, Jimmy Carter had the most intelligence. I know you're shocked given that he was also the most pathetic president in history. George W., believe or not, is not a genius as most people assume. He only has average intelligence. But he might as well be the most intelligent given the historic things that he has already accomplished.

Al Gore had very high intelligence but he was unlucky. Boy are we lucky not to have him as President. We don't want a jinxed person like that in the White House. Bad luck is contagious.

Bush is lucky and people know it. He'll go down as the greatest ever after he has won at least 4 more wars. Lincoln only had one. FDR only had one. Kennedy only had one (Bay of Pigs) and lost. Bush Sr. was great because he was undefeated in three wars. Clinton had none but he was lucky for having the dot.com boom occur (which he had nothing to do with) but he was an idiot for being such an unethical and imoral person. The Great Reagan had only one major war but it was also the biggest - the Cold War. But Dubya will beat all of them.

[HDPM]

Al Gore is not intelligent. That is a myth. He demonstrated he was a very stupid man in the campaign, particularly the debate where he walked up on Bush. Only a total moron would do that. His SATs were football and basketball player level. He never got through graduate school. Bush is actually smarter than Gore. That says more about Gore than Bush. I don't think Jimmy was as smart as people give him credit for, but he is far more intelligent than Gore.

How does the number of wars matter. Lincoln's war was a lot more iumportant than any Bush will wage. FDR's too. But you are probably trolling on this one and maybe I fell for it.;-)

[Men the Master]

I was a football and basketball player. And I never made it to graduate school. Are you insulting my intelligence?

The 6 to 10 wars that Bush will ultimately have waged and win during his two terms as President will be more important than Lincoln's Civil War. Lincoln didn't even have tanks and didn't have to face Weapons of Mass Annihilation. Lincoln saved a country. Bush will save the world. Way to go, Bush!!!

[HDPM]

well, did you score higher than Gore? If not, then yes. I forget exactly what gore got. It wasn't too high.

[Men the Master]

I scored lower than Gore. /forums/images/icons/frown.gif

[BruceZ]

According to the Cox study of historical geniuses, J.Q. Adams had an IQ of 175 in his day which translates to approximately 153 by today's Stanford Binet standard. This bests both Jefferson and Franklin by 15 points. This study is an estimate based on biographical data and writings rather than an actual test.

Historical Genius IQs (http://members.shaw.ca/delajara/Cox300.html)

[adios]

He graduated from Princton, had a law degree from the University of Virginia, and a PhD in Political Science from Johns Hopkins.

[John Cole]

Hey Bruce,

I looked through the list and it only had one baseball player listed, Roy Campanella. It also named a "Pope" but didn't say which one. I think this is totally bogus.

John

[scalf]

/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif aha...another lawyer...

who single-handedly resegregated wash d.c,

help us from the lawyers...

gl /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif

[MMMMMM]

So how does a score of a 171 I.Q. on the Stanford-Binet scale at the age of twelve in the year 1973 translate in today's terms? (I don't mean if the person in question were to take the test today(;-)), but rather, have the score values changed significantly since then?)

[BruceZ]

The page I referenced contains a formula for converting this, which you can easily compute if your IQ is that high. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif You have to be careful when comparing scores of children to adults, since some older tests of children compared mental age to chronological age, but perhaps the Stanford-Binet test did not do this.

[BruceZ]

I don't think Roy was born before 1850.

It's Pope as in "Shakespeare, Nietche, Frost, Kant, Pope, Locke, O'Connor. My soulmates, but I can't dialoge with them without some serious smelling salts and a heater".

-Will H.

[MMMMMM]

It was the later part I was wondering about. There has to be some way to adjust for chronological age (or a separate test for children), and I was hoping you might know how this may have changed over the years--ah well I can look it up I suppose--thx

[andyfox]

He read a lot, but without any critical faculties. He was stubborn and was the same unsophisticated country bumpkin at the end of his presidency as he was when he shilled for the Prendergast machine. His stubbornness and, by his own admission, unpreparedness for the presidency led to many disasters during his tenure, the most egregious being the stridency of the early Cold War, the arms build-up that led to the military-industrial complex, and the Korean War quagmire.

Truman may have been many things, but he was certainly not intelligent.

[andyfox]

Some otherwise intelligent people have had peculiar ideas about race. Jefferson, of course, comes to mind first and foremost.

It's probably hard for most of us, or at least it is for me, to separate our feelings about the politics of many presidents from an objective assessment of their intelligence. I think Jefferson is probably the most overrated American of all time, but he was undoubtedly intelligent. Wilson, Quincy Adams, the first Adams, and Carter were also quite intelligent, it would seem. As was Teddy Roosevelt, who I despise.

Also it's hard to deal with the past, it's another country. We all know Dubya, we see and here him every day. We don't know Teddy Roosevelt, we are relying on what he wrote and what others said about him.

Of the presidents who have served in my lifetime, I would rank their intelligence:

1) Carter
2) Kennedy
3) Johnson
4) Clinton
5) Eisenhower
6) Bush 41
7) Nixon
8) Dubya
9) Ford
10)Reagan

I think they're all jerks, BTW, with the exception of Carter and Ike, both of whom, IMHO, were admirable people. Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, and Clinton were particularly ignoble slime. Hard to believe someone can rank below Gerald Ford on this list, but Reagan clearly rates, and it's not close.

[MMMMMM]

Ford sounded a whole lot less intelligent than Reagan.

Whoever gave away the Panama Canal had to be an idiot;-)

[andyfox]

When the Senate was voting on the Canal deal, it was going to be very close (I think it ended up 50-50 with the VP casting the deciding vote?). We had perhaps the worst senator in history (which is saying quite a bit, I know: we've had George Murphy and John Tunney) at that time, S. I. Hayakawa. He strolls in during the middle of the vote and everyone mobs him, asking how are you going to vote, how are you going to vote (apparently he had been undecided up to that time). His response: "What are we voting on?"

BTW, if memory serves, John Wayne, to everyone's surprise, was in favor of the Canal deal. (I think he may have been married to a Latina at that time, perhaps that effected his thinking.)

[Jimbo]

A purely coincidental correlation?

<pre><font class="small">code:</font><hr>
1) Carter Democrat
2) Kennedy Democrat
3) Johnson Democrat
4) Clinton Democrat
5) Eisenhower Republican
6) Bush 41 Republican
7) Nixon Republican
8) Dubya Republican
9) Ford Republican
10)Reagan Republican

</pre><hr>

Hmmm, top 4 are democrats bottom 6 are republicans. Who woulda thunk? /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[andyfox]

Probably not coincidental.

So how would you rate 'em?

Now if I was rating them on character, we'd have:

1) Carter
2) Eisenhower
3) Ford
4) Bush 41
5) Dubya
6) Reagan
7) Kennedy
8) Clinton
9) Johnson
10) Nixon

with the bottom four light-years removed from the top six. Despicable, loathsome creatures. Three of them Democrats.

By the admission of Republican stalwarts Richard Nixon and Nelson Rockefeller, Gerald Ford was a do-do. I've made the case for Reagan being one on this forum several times, quoting many Republicans. I've read all of Richard Nixon's books and the published transcripts of his taped conversations, and he was a stupid, stupid man. Do you think Dubya is as sharp as LBJ was, or his dad? Hell, I rank you, Tom Haley, and M above most, if not all, of the Republicans on the list.

[Jimbo]

"So how would you rate 'em?"

I would put Carter on top as far as intelluct goes but towards the bottom in common sense ranking. The rest all had more common sense than Carter but were far inferior in pure intellect except perhaps Clinton. No career General will be in my top ten unless Colin Powell is elected. Bush 41 and 43 have higher intellects than Johnson or Kennedy but Johnson was full of street smarts and Kennedy had connections that makes Bush 43 look like the wallflower at a debutante party.

At lease we agree that a nuclear engineer is smarter than someone who likes yacht racing and polo. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[andyfox]

Yes, perhaps Johnson and Kennedy should be lowered on the intellectual scale. Certainly Johnson.

I'm too lazy right now to look for the Gore/internet discussion we had elsewhere, so I'll put this link here, which I think is quite good:

http://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue5_10/wiggins/

One great tidbit therein is a quip from Clinton, "Al Gore invented the Internet. For the record, I, too, am an inventor. I invented George Stephanopoulos."

[BruceZ]

We are better than 99.5% confident that Andy's assessment has a party bias.

[Jimbo]

Andy that was a good link. I particularly enjoyed the Letterman top ten list:

Top Ten Other Achievements Claimed By Al Gore
10. Was first human to grow an opposable thumb

9. Only man in world to sleep with someone named "Tipper"

8. Current Vice President - Moesha fan club

7. He invented the dog

6. While riding bicycle one day, accidentally invented the orgasm

5. Pulled U.S. out of early 90's recession by personally buying 6,000 T-shirts

4. Starred in CBS situation comedy with Juan Valdez, "Juan for Al, Al for Juan"

3. Was inspiration for Ozzy Osboune song "Crazy Train"

2. Came up with popular catchphrase "Don't go there, girlfriend"

1. Gave mankind fire

[Cyrus]

[This was posted some days ago on another website]

George W Bush Jr is still in his first term in office, but let's try to rank him among the post-World War II American Presidents.

Stacked against Dwight Eisenhower, Dubya looks a little small, shall I say. And I am ignoring the men's military background, which is somewhat lopsided. As a leader, Ike formulated and followed a containment Grand Strategy that brought about a sometimes openly if locally beligerent situation but more importantly an overall stability in American relations with the rest of the world's powers. (We could also talk about the economy.)
Ike-Dubya 1-0.

John F Kennedy chose to have a better quality and variety of aides, used them wellm to solicit advice, encouraged dissent, did not come on as a superpatriot, was self-effacing in his humor and knew how to charm. He generated a lot of hatred, of course, for "being soft on commies" and "too easy on the niggers" but those are actually badges of honor. He also knew very well the concept of calculated risk, something that seems to elude Dubya, who's all in at every pot. JFK got the U.S. into Vietnam, true, which was of course much worse for America than two Iraqs, but we can reasonably say that the total, eventual U.S. involvement came about gradually. (I will not bring up the issue of the two men's military service background.)
JFK-Dubya 1-0.

Lyndon Johnson compounded the New Deal by bringing forth the Great Society legislation, one of the greatest mistakes ever in the eyes of the Conservative Right. I am currently more easy on the tal Texan than when he was chief (and alive) because I have come to know how he built those incredible consensuses around his legislation and his policies. Damn practical man! I don't know about you but as Texans go, it's
LBJ-Dubya 1-0.

Richard Nixon was smarter than Bush Jr, let's give that a rest. Nixon did not alienate China as Bush has; on the contrary, Nixon made a historical, etc etc. And Watergate is a parking ticket compared to the Bush family serious crimes in finance alone. (I will not bring up the two men's military service record.)
Nixon-Dubya 1-0

Gerald Ford looks like the easiest opponent for Dubya, what with all that helmetless football an' all. Still, on personal honesty and loyalty to friends alone, Ford wins the race.
Ford-Dubya 1-0

Jimmy Carter is still (falsely) perceived to be a weak player ---- but not when one digs deeper into the GOP meddling with the Iranian hostage crisis. Carter actually confronted the Soviets when they need to be, buts sensibly allowed the Latin American countries that were fed up with tinpot dictators to overthrow them, eg Nicaragua. Which did not hurt the Monroe dogma one bit. (I will not bring up the answer Dubya would give if asked what this "Monroe" is all about.)
Carter-Dubya 1-0

Ronald Reagan looks tough but isn't. Ronnie could lie with more charisma -- and he knew his lines! Dubya seems always ready to make a mistake in fron of the mike, and he usually does. At best a funny phrase, at worst a complete non-sequitur. The two men are equally hopeless with out-of-the-script questions but give Ronnie a point for havcing a trade union's leader background.
Teflon Ron-Dubya 1-0

George Bush Sr wins hands down over Junior. And not just on qualifications : Daddy was a genuine war hero, served as U.S. ambassador to important capitals around the world, as Congressman, as Director of the CIA, and as Vice President. Dubya was just the son of Daddy (and Texas Governor, right). Daddy got the U.S. in and out of Iraq, having learned full well the lessons of Vietnam.
Father-Son 1-0

And we come to Bill Clinton... Can we give ol' Bill the nod just on economic performance alone? We can't? OK, we will try for the moral angle. Clinton lied to Congress -- check for Dubya too (viz. 2003 State of the Union Address, inter alia). Clinton had incidents of substance abuse in his youth -- OK, Dubya conceds that point. Clinton went to war against Serbia without having a proper reason -- Ummm, Iraq, OK, Dubya still looking after a reason, give him time. Spouses ? Clinton had Hillary -- Dubya wins hands down this round. Sex ? Clinton had sex in the White House -- Dubya never has sex in the White House.
Clinton-Dubya 1-0

...No, of course I did not forget Harry Truman! What do you want from me? Harry Truman had "The Buck Stops Here" in his Oval Office desk. What does Dubya have? A sign with an arrow pointing to Cheney's office.
Truman-Dubya 1-0

Summary : The United States is now led by the worst President in post-War history.

--Cyrus

[adios]

"Truman may have been many things, but he was certainly not intelligent."

Didn't say he was or wasn't, just left omitted him from the list, the same list that includes Reagan and Bush /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[brad]

iq relates sample (you) to your age group population ( 12 y.o.'s)

171 at 12 is no big deal if u were advanced educated and may not correlate to adult iq

[brad]

'I think they're all jerks, BTW, with the exception of Carter and Ike, both of whom, IMHO, were admirable people.'

east timor was carter's watch. ( US supported genocide)