Destined to lose or poorly played?

[DaNoob]

1 table S&G NLHE tournament - it's 5-handed now. Blinds are 75/150 and I've got the baby stack at T1555. I've been playing ok, but not great poker, and have built my stack up from T1000 by stealing a bit here and there. Cards have been ice cold for most of the tourney. My opponent in this hand has been playing very aggressively. He'll bet the flop regardless of what he has, and come over the top of other bets whenever he gets a piece of the flop (regardless of how big of a piece he has). He's the guy at the table that shows more action than anyone else, and is currently in 2nd chip position with T2900.

I post the SB, and look down to see AA. This is my first strong hand of the night and I'm praying for action. As Murphy's law would dictate, it's 3 mucks to me and I've got to decide how to play. Hoping to induce a re-raise, I raise the minimum. BB calls after hesitating for a few seconds.

Flop comes 6 6 Q. At this point, I'm hoping he has hit the Q and is ready to play. I bet 2/3 of the pot, he re-raise all-in. Having achieved the desired response, I call and watch with horror as he turns over a 68o. No help arrives and I'm burnt by Aces once again.

Did I misplay this hand or was this one of those situations where the poker gods set me up for a fall?

Thanks in advance for the flame.

[Magician]

You could have raised more pre-flop with those Aces - but when they all mucked you would wonder if you had wasted them.

If you had checked on the flop, and he bet, I think it would be very hard to lay those aces down.

Sounds like the cards were playing you and you were destined to lose that time.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Hoping to induce a re-raise, I raise the minimum.

Relating to our earlier discussion, from the SB I think you can induce a reraise by raising to 450, yet avoid what happened; inducing a call from a marginal hand. True, you got unlucky, but I think you control your luck more by making a normal "steal" raise here.

[Magician]

I disagree - if he raised normally and everyone mucked he would have regretted wasting those rare Aces.

[DaNoob]

I was told that the only exception to the 'never slowplay aces' rule is when the game gets shorthanded. I thought very seriously about just completing and hoping to induce a bluff from the aggressive BB, but decided against it at the last minute.

To your point, Kurn, changing your normal calling/raising patterns is a sure-fire way to send signals to your opponent. Looking back, I think the proper play here is to either raise the 3x or complete.

Does it make sense to slow-play these puppies, or should I have been happy just to "steal" the blinds?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

And every time you vary your bet size based upon what you're holding, you give your opponents a frame of reference from which to narrow down what you're doing.

if he raised normally and everyone mucked he would have regretted wasting those rare Aces.

This line of thought leads you into making bad plays. I *never* regret winning a pot. Part of the EV of AA comes from winning the blinds.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Here's the scenario. I'm in the BB, a player I know will try to trap me like this limit raises me from the SB, I will now call with *any 2 cards*. Why? Because in my mind, I'm so far ahead, he can't see me. If I can put him on AA, KK, QQ only, I can play perfectly after the flop, whereas my opponent is in the dark.

Say I hold 74o. Flop comes 7-6-4 rainbow. Opponent bets the pot, I call. Turn 9. Opponent again bets the pot, I raise all-in. You're the guy w/AA. What do I have?

Sure the situation is rare, but from my perspective, I'm only risking one big blind with huge implied odds, if the trapper gets trapped.

So, if I hold the aces, I want to raise the right amount, because even though I'll get more loose calls from a steal position (which I want) they won't be random hands, so I'll have a better idea postflop what my opponent's actions mean if all he does is call. Ihe reraises preflop, I get what I want and put him in. If he folds I take the pot.

[Magician]

I find a lot of guys bite to the baby raise online.

I'm happy to get action on my aces consistently and if I get unlucky I accept the loss that time.

[Copernicus]

What do you regret more, "wasting" AA, or letting someone in and losing the tourney on a lucky flop? I think its Brunson in Super/System who says never slow play AA and I agree. 20% of the time you get post-flop action out of a player you let walk in, he is going to have you beat on the flop (assuming he needs to flop top pair or better to play on) and if hes suited or connected there are also going to be a lot of hands he may have the odds to draw to. Its not worth it. Make them pay to see that miracle flop.

The only exception is if you are so short stacked that winning only the blinds dont improve your chances of survival and you are desperate for a big payoff.

[Magician]

Right, and Doyle also has you betting the pot on the flop and turn with rags.

It's outdated and since he wrote the book the game has changed.

I think the key when slowplaying AA is to have the discipline to fold if you know for sure you are beat - hard to lay them down to potential trips but for something obvious like a flush or straight I could lay them down.

[Magician]

I see your point - but some BB's will re-raise thinking you don't have much and then you can stick it to them.

[Ignatius]

Depending on your opponent, completing (and then checking the flop), a standard raise or even moving in might be optimal here. A minimum raise is arguably the worst possible play as it will warn your opponent that you have a big hand (why else would you lay him 3:1 odds on the call), prevents him from bluffing and kills your action unless he hits the flop hard.

[elindauer]

Good analysis. I think you may be ignoring the actual stack sizes in the problem though. The BB has only 1K in chips, and the raise is to 300. He'll only have 850 left after calling the raise, hardly huge implied odds.

Which brings me to my point. Everyone seems to feel that it's a bad thing for the aces that the 68 called here. I happen to think that if you hold the aces here, you *want* players to call with any two cards. How many times are they going to flop a pair and get busted, figuring, with 850 in front of them and 600 in the pot, they can't afford to fold? Lots. If the flop comes 345, the 68 may call go all-in, thinking he has 10 outs if called, when he actually has 4. How many times is the 68 going to double through? A lot less. By making that small raise, you've caused your opponent to make a mistake, which is how you win.

IMHO.
-Eric

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Right, and Doyle also has you betting the pot on the flop and turn with rags. It's outdated and since he wrote the book the game has changed.

Huh?? This is exactly how guys like Phil Ivey, Gus Hansen and Layne Flack play.