$109 Level 2, LAG-gy opponent, OOP and horrible flop (KK)

[tigerite]

PartyPoker - NL Texas Hold'em $100 Buy-in + $9 Entry Fee Tournament | Level: 2 - 9 players (Converter: PGC (http://client.pokergrader.com))

MP2 is N/A

Chip Counts:
Button: 1030 Chips
<font color="red">Hero: 1240 Chips</font>
BB: 865 Chips
UTG: 1015 Chips
UTG+1: 960 Chips
MP1: 1985 Chips
MP2: 1165 Chips
MP3: 940 Chips
CO: 800 Chips

Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif
Blinds are 15/30

PreFlop
<font color="blue">UTG folds</font>, <font color="blue">UTG+1 folds</font>, <font color="blue">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="red">MP2 RAISES ($150)</font>, <font color="blue">MP3 folds</font>, <font color="blue">CO folds</font>, <font color="blue">Button folds</font>
<font color="red">Hero RAISES ($345)</font>, <font color="blue">BB folds</font>, <font color="green">MP2 Calls</font>

(2 players) FLOP: 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif ( Pot Size: 750 Chips )
<font color="red">Hero ?</font>

[rbear]

I hate this spot. I most likely push, but I don't like it. Since laggy, I don't put villian on AK, maybe worse ace or lower pocket pair. Hopefully my push gets him to fold worse ace. (Chances he hit his flush are negligable enough to disregard). Hopefully he's not donkish enough to chase his 4 to a flush either.

[tigerite]

I think in retrospect I should've pushed preflop, perhaps. Ugh, I dunno.

[rbear]

No way do I push preflop. A laggy player will call this reraise with so many hands your ahead of. The chips you gain by villians call here + more on further streets are far greater than the chips you lose when villian hits, imo.

[rbear]

bump, clear push on this flop to others??

[rbear]

bump

[adanthar]

I feel fine with either pushing or check/folding here, although the LAGgier he is the easier the push.

A lot depends on his 5x raising range...lots of LAGs will do stuff like minraise trash but big raise their 'real hands' (which still suck but have a lot of aces in the range.) Vs. one of those guys I am fine check/folding, or check/pushing to a weak bet. It depends on what he does, really.

[tigerite]

I probably did the worst thing I could in the hand, bet the pot or so, leaving myself 400 behind. He pushed and I kinda had to call. I didn't really have many reads on him sadly, other than he was a fish and liked pretty cards, it was only level 2.

[rbear]

Being that there are a lot of aces in that range, do you think pushing (representing AK) is an effective way of getting villian off weaker ace?

[tewall]

KK is about 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 to win if called. You're not likely to get a better edge than this later on. The reason not to raise is that KK is too good a hand to just pick up a small amount of chips. If you knew you'd be call by one opponent, you'd raise in a heart beat.

[rbear]

you don't reraise at all preflop???

[tewall]

Why not make a continuation bet? If the flop didn't hit Villain, which is likely, your bet is likely to be very scary. If he comes over the top, you're not in bad shape when you fold, but you've given yourself a decent chance to win the pot.

[tigerite]

That's what I did, but I didn't fold the cont bet. The problem is against a LAG, in my opinion, this is going to be a naked heart or some other crap so often, I find it very hard to lay it down. Now if it had been a rainbow board, that's very different..

[tewall]

The way tigerite played it was fine. He raised enough to get value for his hand. He'd have been happy to go all in if he knew he'd be called. He was trying to do better than just picking up what was in the pot at that time. KK is strong enough to go for a bit more, which is what tigerite did.

[J-Lo]

I push this preflop, the crap that calls you is ASTOUNDING (at $55's), and i'd imagine the $109s still have ALOT of players callin' w/ AJ and 22.

To the perosn that said u win more by raising to 345 than pushing:

Think about the % of hands he will call your push with, and your edge. 8%

Think the number of times an A flops and he has an A (1/6)-- you make a ~300 continuation bet, and fold.

Think the number of times he compeltely misses, and folds to you continuation bet.

How often will he hit a hand that u beat, or not hit and bluff?

I think pushing is the way to go.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
Being that there are a lot of aces in that range, do you think pushing (representing AK) is an effective way of getting villian off weaker ace?

[/ QUOTE ]

He folds A2+ here around 5% of the time with a 5% margin of error

[tewall]

I think a smaller CB would be fine, like 60% or so of the flop. This should be large enough to be scary for the other guy, but is small enough that you can get away from your hand. If your plan is to call him if he goes over the top, then that's an optimal size for that result too. If your plan is to go to the felt with the hand, a bet like this is better than pushing as you're much more likely to get all in as a favorite. If your plan is to take a shot at the pot without committing yourself, you have that option too.

Pushing pre-flop seems fine too. The way you played is likely higher EV than just pushing, but probably not by much. It's a way of playing that gives your a chance of doubling up without much risk, and if you win the pot right away, that's OK too. Less volatility and more clear-cut. Especially if you're multi-tabling giving up a little EV for clarity seems sensible.

[rbear]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Being that there are a lot of aces in that range, do you think pushing (representing AK) is an effective way of getting villian off weaker ace?

[/ QUOTE ]

He folds A2+ here around 5% of the time with a 5% margin of error

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for going through all those hh's for this excellent stat /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/wink.gif /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[bones]

I'll echo what adanthar said. A piece of free advice that will save you a ton of money in the long run: Trying to push someone off of top pair in an 800 chip game is one of the dumbest things you can attempt.

Edit: just noticed this was a 1000 chip game. It still applies.

[rbear]

Thanks.

[bigt439]

I think checking is the play. Pushing or folding is your call. I haven't really added a whole lot to this thread, but that is what I would do. Feel will determine whether pushing or folding is better, but I don't think there's a huge EV discrepancy between the two.