An object lesson: don't fight with your wife.

Linky dinky (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/03/AR2005120301476.html)

Short story: CIA kindaps German citizen and improsons him in Afghanistan for five months. Why? His name sounded familiar. After they figure it out some CIA doofuses want to just drop him off on the street and deny everything.

I can't wait for all of the posts defending this. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[PoBoy321]

Yeah, the CIA wrongfully imprisons people all the time with little evidence and no due process. I don't see how this is news.

EDIT: Whoops, I meant the US gov't in general, although I'm confident that this program goes by the same lax standard of proof as the military.

[CORed]

I used to be proud to be American. Now I'm ashamed.

[lastchance]

This is freaking scary.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

This is not the mistake of one man, or one unit. This is the result of moral collapse. Moral collapse is the result of leaders who give unclear messages (like trying to avoid a anti-torture bill to be passed). New reports today in British newspaper about repeated US torture. Norwegian soldiers in Iraq reporting that US soldiers behaved towards the civilian population in a meaningless brutal way. Etc. etc.. No clean-up, no change, since it is "necessary".

How long do Americans think it will take before it will spread to cops and judges inside the US as well? How long do Americans think that if they let a president behave like a fascist abroad and thus develop a fascistic apparatus, that they can prevent him or later presidents to use the fascistic apparatus against it owns citizens? How can they be so naïve that they think they are safe?

So much struggle to battle nazism, communism etc. just to let a bunch of Islamist nutheads trick you into a similar mindset and system?

[HopeydaFish]

I'm surprised that they didn't just go and kill him once they realized he was innocent and didn't have any information to give them. Now they have a bit of a headache on their hands.

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
Short story: CIA kindaps German citizen and improsons him in Afghanistan for five months.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Elliot,

This guy wasn't kidnapped by the CIA. He was arrested by Macedonian authorities. The Macedonians turned him over to the CIA.

Stu

[ QUOTE ]

Hi Elliot,

This guy wasn't kidnapped by the CIA. He was arrested by Macedonian authorities. The Macedonians turned him over to the CIA.

Stu

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh. The CIA decided not to wait to see if his story checked out, instead having him blindfolded and brought to the airport. There, persons dressed head-to-toe in black cut off his clothes, changed his blidfold, gave him an enema and drugged him for the flight to Afghanistan. Now, that may not be "kidnapping" to you, but, hey, different strokes, right?

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
The CIA decided not to wait to see if his story checked out, instead having him blindfolded and brought to the airport.

[/ QUOTE ]

During the 23 days the Macedonians were holding him, the CIA debated wether or not to take custody of this guy. Apparently he may have been such a high value target that the CIA decided to take custody of him. You make it sound like they snatched this guy without a thought or care. For all you know the Macedonians were going to cut him loose unless we immeadiately took custody of him and removed him from the country.

If the guy was suspected of being post plastic-surgery Osama Bin Laden and the CIA let him go, you would be criticizing the Bush administration as being incompetent.

Stu

[ QUOTE ]
During the 23 days the Macedonians were holding him, the CIA debated wether or not to take custody of this guy. Apparently he may have been such a high value target that the CIA decided to take custody of him. You make it sound like they snatched this guy without a thought or care. For all you know the Macedonians were going to cut him loose unless we immeadiately took custody of him and removed him from the country.

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm hmm. I knew I would love the right-wing defenses of this. So he "may have" been a high level operative? Oh, that's different. What did the CIA base that on?

[ QUOTE ]
Masri was held for five months largely because the head of the CIA's Counterterrorist Center's al Qaeda unit "believed he was someone else," one former CIA official said. "She didn't really know. She just had a hunch."

[/ QUOTE ]

Ohhhhhhhh, she had a hunch. I guess that makes it all ok in your book, right? Excellent.

[ QUOTE ]
If the guy was suspected of being post plastic-surgery Osama Bin Laden and the CIA let him go, you would be criticizing the Bush administration as being incompetent.

[/ QUOTE ]

My friend, none of us needs any more proof of the administration's incompetence. It is plain to anyone who is paying attention.

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
This guy wasn't kidnapped by the CIA. He was arrested by Macedonian authorities. The Macedonians turned him over to the CIA.

[/ QUOTE ]These would be the same folks, I mean the Macedonians, who have this on their record, as everybody (and the CIA?) knows :

Some months ago, the Macedonians announced with a bit of fanfare that they had killed seven terrorists in a gun fight, somewhere in Macedonia. The authorities let it be alleged that the dead terrorists were probably al Qaeda. What a coup for Macedonia!

It came out subsequently that the Macedonian police (and not just some isolated cop) decided to please the Americans and to promote Macedonia as a country "standing steadfast along the US in its fight against terror". So they decided to find a bunch of illegal, "darkie" immigrants and kill 'em off, which they did by killing in cold blood seven hapless Pakistani refugees.

The murderers admitted as much, in public, and apologized. Nothing happened to them, as far as I recall, because the matter was hushed over.

This is the kind of people the CIA still willingly and consciously assosiates with. Shouldn't the CIA have been just a little more suspicious and careful ?

...Stupid spooks.

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
Ohhhhhhhh, she had a hunch. I guess that makes it all ok in your book, right? Excellent.


[/ QUOTE ]

The statement,"she had a hunch" came from a former CIA official. We know nothing about this person other than they no longer work for the CIA. Did the CIA cheif in question fire this person? Did this person actually work in a capacity to have first hand knowledge of the case in question? Come on Elliot, learn to be a little critical of what you read and you might stop succumbing to that leftist propaganda.


From the article we know Marsi apparently has a name that is very similar to a sought after Al Queda operative. His explaination for being 800 miles from home was "I'm just blowing off steam". His passport was suspect. Stop trying to spin this into looking like the CIA had no reason what so ever to be suspicious of him.

The article is probably missing additional information that makes Marsi suspicious. Additionally we have no ideal how much of a threat the CIA believed Marsi may have been.

We are not are not in a position to make a valid judgment for or againsts the CIA's action in this matter. The German government is in a better position and for some reason they are remaining silent on this matter.


Stu

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
It came out subsequently that the Macedonian police....

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't be surprised if subsequent information comes out in this case concerning Marsi. Thats why its important to read articles like the one Elliot linked with a critical eye.

[ QUOTE ]
This is the kind of people the CIA still willingly and consciously assosiates with. Shouldn't the CIA have been just a little more suspicious and careful ?

[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds like the Marsi incident occurred sometime before this incident you are referring too. By the way can you post a link just so we know you're not pulling this stuff out of your ass?

Stu

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
So much struggle to battle nazism, communism etc. just to let a bunch of Islamist nutheads trick you into a similar mindset and system?


[/ QUOTE ]

All this is necessary to combat terror and keep our security don't you see? It's raining toffee apples and chocolate bunnies, all the clouds are made of cotton candy, whee everything is wonderful.

Mack

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
Can you post a link just so we know you're not pulling this stuff out of your ass?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure. Here. (http://www.leninimports.com/kissmyassp1.jpg)

[Cyrus]

I guess there might be a bum or two here who are too lazy to google it up. So here goes:

BBC Report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3674533.stm) [ QUOTE ]
Friday, 30 April, 2004, 16:48 GMT
Macedonian officials have admitted that seven alleged Pakistani militants killed in March 2002 were in fact illegal immigrants shot in cold blood to "impress" the international community.
They said four officers in the security services had been charged with their murder, while former Interior Minister Ljube Boskovski may also face charges.


[/ QUOTE ]