4 handed 200/400 bellagio hand

[bicyclekick]

4 handed. button is an ok player. He raises pre-flop the right amount and defends his big blind pretty well...a little on the loose side. He still overvalues hands to call 3 bets in the bb when it's raised, as well as randomly open limps stuff like Q7s in 5 handed games every once in awhile. He also calls too much in the sb by far. Postflop eh he's ok. He puts a decent amount of preasure on. He had just sat down mb 10 minutes ago but we played the night before.

He raises on the button, sb folds, I 3 bet K/images/graemlins/club.gif6/images/graemlins/club.gif out of the bb, he calls.

flop T/images/graemlins/club.gif7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif6/images/graemlins/heart.gif

I bet he calls.

turn 3/images/graemlins/club.gif

I bet, he raises, I 3 bet, he 4 bets, I call.

river 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif

I check/raise planning on folding to a 3 bet.

[Spicymoose]

I just call preflop. You don't have that great equity, and when you autobet the flop, he will be able to put huge pressure on you with his position.

I like the turn.

On the river, couldn't he have a worse 6? I would have a hard time folding.

I might not be able to read into this too well, but when the only hand you pass on the river is T7 (leaving sets, T6, 67, and 89) is there even any value in a c/r to begin with? Do you expect him to be 4 betting a 1 pair hand some portion of the time?

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]

I check/raise planning on folding to a 3 bet.


[/ QUOTE ]

this reminds me of our A9 vs. K9 hand when you 3bet me w/ K9 and i folded to your 4 bet on the river...

i would advise against making the same mistake i did.

i like a bet call if you dont think he'd do this with AA/two pair.

if he would a checkraise/call would be better than a bet call or bet/3bet/call.

Barron

EDIT: oh yeah, i call preflop and c'r flop.

[ggbman]

The turn bet/3 bet line is pointless IMO, hes just about never folding better hands. The river line is perfect.

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
The turn bet/3 bet line is pointless IMO, hes just about never folding better hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would he never play a 7 this way? Also, wouldn't it be good to get people with a fair amount of outs to fold, and give up that equity? Also, isn't this 3-bet sometimes for value, as villain may be making a move with a draw?

*shakes head sadly*, everything about this hand shows how utterly inept I'd be at the high levels of poker.

[oreogod]

not sure about turn.

As far as your river plan, I guess it works if the only hands he's 3betting are the ones that beat u. Dunno, I hate folding trips...but if hes only 3betting hands that have u crushed, then fine.

[baronzeus]

i dont like the turn 3bet at all. on the button i'd do it but not OOP.


as for your river line, fine. honestly i dont think he's capable of 4 betting a worse 6 on the turn and i dont think he's capable of 3 betting two pair or a tp or an overpair on the river so folding is fine IMO.

[Spicymoose]

Does he never play this way with 68, 69, 65 or 64?

[tomahawk]

[ QUOTE ]
Does he never play this way with 68, 69, 65 or 64?

[/ QUOTE ]

look at the board on the turn. if he played those hands like this I'd say "he puts a decent amont of pressure on" is a bit of an understatement.

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does he never play this way with 68, 69, 65 or 64?

[/ QUOTE ]

look at the board on the turn. if he played those hands like this I'd say "he puts a decent amont of pressure on" is a bit of an understatement.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. He has a gutshot + pair, so 9 outs if behind. Also, this seems like a pretty agressive game, and maybe he could fold out some of BKs weaker hands?

[TStoneMBD]

a bet call line is truly terrible. he would have to raise a weaker hand more often than a legitimate one if you assume that he always bets the river to make bet/calling right.

[Drontier]

I like this hand. I think he folds actually a good portion of the time on the turn after the bet/3bet. If he just calls and you go UI on the river. Are you check/calling? bet/folding? check/folding? If you were to bet/fold the river UI. I really like the hand. I expect you to lose almost everytime if he calls, but I want to show consistent aggression with a hand that has huge equity on the turn vs something like an overpair. Since hes an "eh" player at the 200/400 level, I expect him to adapt for the future and call down your bet/3bet, river bet line more frequently with lesser holdings. As far as this hand in isolation, I think its close but -EV. If you had a hand like 78c I think it would be +EV.

[psyduck]

[ QUOTE ]

...
I check/raise planning on folding to a 3 bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you guys do this so much when the pot is so inflated and it's just ONE more bet to you? Plus, it pretty much [censored] up your metagame, no?

[skp]

How is it that one can go multiple bets preflop with a mediocre hand, and turn when you just have a strong draw (not saying that it was wrong to do so here) and go 2 bets on the river but then be willing to fold for 1 more bet if raised when you now have a pretty strong hand.

I am all for saving bets at the end when you strongly suspect that you are beat. It's one attribute of a winning player but geez, this is going too far IMO.

FWIW, I would probably just call preflop K6. You guys are playing 4 handed. The guy knows that you know his raises are light and therefore knows that your preflop 3 bets are also light. Taking the initiative doesn't seem to be a reason to 3 bet here. When out of position, I would wnat to keep the pots small. I would just call.

[gaming_mouse]

BK,

How often do you 3bet PF here? Can you discuss the advantages you see?


Can we omit big pairs from his range? I'd guess so, but don't know. We'd have:

T7 - 9
33 - 3

98 - 16
77 - 3
TT - 3

So when you raise the river you are a 22:12 dog. Even adding AA to his range, you are still a dog. So what am I missing? It seems like a c/call???

The preflop 3-bet is a little shaky, but not bad. It's a good mix from time to time and lets your opponents know that stealing from you isn't easy.

The turn bet/3-bet is OK. Calling his raise might be better, but that's negotiable.

Folding trips anywhere on the river is not a good idea. Are you really that desparate to save a single big bet in a 13+ BB pot? Even if he resteals < 10% of the time it's worth a call. Not to mention you can easily have the best hand against a slow-played premium pair.

[NLSoldier]

I like the flop.

Very subtle. nh.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
haha.

[PokerBob]

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The turn bet/3 bet line is pointless IMO, hes just about never folding better hands. The river line is perfect.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not sure, but i don't think that is the point. How often is he raising with a hand like AK-AJ here for a free SD?

[dave44]

Like others, I would need a read and a reason to 3-bet this preflop.

I like the turn line. It's great for metagame purposes and he'll be hardpressed to calldown with some of the weaker hands he might raise this turn with.

After he 4-bets the turn, I don't see him having a large enough range of hands to justify a check-raise so I just check-call.

[bicyclekick]

He sat and pondered for about 45 seconds and called with 7's full.

I don't know how you guys can possibly want to call a 3 bet. That's sick bad play vs this player. Maybe you had to be here and play with this guy. Notice he didn't even 3 bet 7's full...and he's never 3 betting the straight either. Ever.

I call with this hand more than I 3 bet out of the blinds but I've been expirimenting with it more and more. It kinda depends how things are giong in the session too.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't know how you guys can possibly want to call a 3 bet. That's sick bad play vs this player. Maybe you had to be here and play with this guy. Notice he didn't even 3 bet 7's full...and he's never 3 betting the straight either. Ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bk,

Isn't this more reason not to c/r? If he's that careful, isn't there even less value in it? Or do you think there was a reasonable chance he would fold a straight or some other better hand?

[skp]

The fact that he took so long to just call with 7's full does not retrospectively mean that you could have automucked if he 3 bet.

Aggressive river play can often mean "monster or nothing" although obviously, that applies more to a river bet than a river 3 bet. But just following my thought for a monent, if the guy can barely muster a call with 7's full here, then when he raises next time in this spot, one could reasonably think that he has the nuts or is actually quite weak i.e. he wont three bet with a middling type hand. Since we hold a 6, he can't have the nuts. So, we call because he might indded be weak. We will probably be wrong and be shown a hand better than trip 6's/ King kicker but we don't have to be right very often.