Huge pot, HU

[Spicymoose]

No stats or actual read. The only information I have is that every time he raised or bet, it was virtually instantly. He was also almost all in, but not quite.

I also didn't realize he had posted UTG at the time.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. UTG posts a blind of $10.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG (poster) raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, SB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (13 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 19 BB

[jba]

maybe just bet/call the river?

i'm scared.

[bank]

I'm leaning towards c/c'ing the river w/o a solid read. Bet/calling would be the next best option.

anyone like just calling the flop raise and donking the turn?

i feel like you're either

a. ahead of something like KK w/ a club
b. crushed by AA
c. or getting free rolled by the other AxKc

you probably lose a sb against KK but at the same time don't offer any free cards. you also save a ton when youre up against AA or getting free rolled.

the river check/raise is no good after this kind of action on the flop and turn.

[WillyTrailer]

I see this kind of super-dumb action from guys who buy in short on their first hand all the time. I like the way you played it. I'm not scared of getting 3 bets in on this river so I like the c/r. I think you're ahead the whole way a lot here. I think you're ahead even more when you river the K.

hope you won a big pot,
WT

[bank]

[ QUOTE ]
anyone like just calling the flop raise and donking the turn?


[/ QUOTE ]

That's not a bad line either. You're missing AQ w/ a club (2 more combos that you are ahead of) in his range of hands.

[ QUOTE ]
You're missing AQ w/ a club (2 more combos that you are ahead of) in his range of hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

true, but even though we are ahead AxQ /images/graemlins/club.gif, our equity is only 53.6%. so it's not like we're missing out on a ton of value by not 3-betting the flop. we do charge ourselves almost a full bb when we're behind AA and a free rolling AK has 68% equity against us.

i still like calling.

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
anyone like just calling the flop raise and donking the turn?

i feel like you're either

a. ahead of something like KK w/ a club
b. crushed by AA
c. or getting free rolled by the other AxKc


[/ QUOTE ]

His range is so much wider than this. Our equity edge is huge on the flop.

[bank]

[ QUOTE ]


His range is so much wider than this. Our equity edge is huge on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

What hands do you think we can add? QQ ? JJ? AJ w/ a club (maybe discount this down to .75 or 1 combo) ?

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


His range is so much wider than this. Our equity edge is huge on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

What hands do you think we can add? QQ ? JJ? AJ w/ a club (maybe discount this down to .75 or 1 combo) ?

[/ QUOTE ]

88-KK, regardless of having a club. A9-AQ with or without a club. KT-KQ with a club.

That is before I realized he posted UTG. With that extra information, his range widens up a bit.

[baronzeus]

the only hands that cap the flop after you 3bet are AK with a club and KK with a club and AA. also an aggro KcQc. MAAAYYYYBBBBEEE AxQc. as for your river, what are you ahead of when you raise that?

[bank]

[ QUOTE ]
the only hands that cap the flop after you 3bet are AK with a club and KK with a club and AA. as for your river, what are you ahead of when you raise that?

[/ QUOTE ]

QQ w/ a club? JJ w/ a club? AQ w/ a club?

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the only hands that cap the flop after you 3bet are AK with a club and KK with a club and AA. as for your river, what are you ahead of when you raise that?

[/ QUOTE ]

QQ w/ a club? JJ w/ a club? AQ w/ a club?

[/ QUOTE ]



possible (i dont think JJ with a club is really possible, maybe AQ) but without a read im not gonna assume nutso. and when they raise the turn the river checkraise is borderline spewing.

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
the only hands that cap the flop after you 3bet are AK with a club and KK with a club and AA. also an aggro KcQc. MAAAYYYYBBBBEEE AxQc. as for your river, what are you ahead of when you raise that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why KK with a club, but not 88-QQ with a club?

On the river, I beat A7, A5, PPs, AQ, MAAAYYYYBBBBEEE AJ.

I dunno, normally I don't think I would do this, but with the autoraising he was doing, along with the fact that he was almost all in, along with the fact that he posted UTG (I didn't know that at the time, but I think knowing that adds a bunch to this picture), made it seem like I could have the best hand quite often.

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the only hands that cap the flop after you 3bet are AK with a club and KK with a club and AA. also an aggro KcQc. MAAAYYYYBBBBEEE AxQc. as for your river, what are you ahead of when you raise that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why KK with a club, but not 88-QQ with a club?

On the river, I beat A7, A5, PPs, AQ, MAAAYYYYBBBBEEE AJ.

I dunno, normally I don't think I would do this, but with the autoraising he was doing, along with the fact that he was almost all in, along with the fact that he posted UTG (I didn't know that at the time, but I think knowing that adds a bunch to this picture), made it seem like I could have the best hand quite often.

[/ QUOTE ]


KK with a club is the nutflush draw. the others are not. people go nutso with nutflush draws and it should be apparent why KK w/a club is far more likely than any other pp with a club. as for your other hands, if you're gonna say he starts capping/going nutso with garbage like A7 preflop, you gotta add a bunch of hands that flopped sets/flushes, which once again, evens up your range. sure, he's all in, but i just dont like the river checkraise against an unknown.

[bank]

[ QUOTE ]


88-KK, regardless of having a club. A9-AQ with or without a club. KT-KQ with a club.

That is before I realized he posted UTG. With that extra information, his range widens up a bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you put him on that range without a read? Is 88-TT really capping preflop, capping flop and raising turn? Same with KT-KQ w/ a club... Seems like only a ultra-LAG would do this...

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


88-KK, regardless of having a club. A9-AQ with or without a club. KT-KQ with a club.

That is before I realized he posted UTG. With that extra information, his range widens up a bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you put him on that range without a read? Is 88-TT really capping preflop, capping flop and raising turn? Same with KT-KQ w/ a club... Seems like only a ultra-LAG would do this...

[/ QUOTE ]

This was a range that justified my flop 3-bet. Once we get to the turn, his range changes.

[bank]

[ QUOTE ]

This was a range that justified my flop 3-bet. Once we get to the turn, his range changes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok now I understand. I still think you have to discount the combos of A9 - AJ with or w/o a club pretty heavily (would an unknown UTG raiser cap A9-AJ pf OOP)? Also you should discount 88-JJ w/o a club even more heavily.

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

This was a range that justified my flop 3-bet. Once we get to the turn, his range changes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok now I understand. I still think you have to discount the combos of A9 - AJ with or w/o a club pretty heavily (would an unknown UTG raiser cap A9-AJ pf OOP)? Also you should discount 88-JJ w/o a club even more heavily.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, weighting definetly needs to be done, but using any reasonable weighting I think would show we definetly have enough equity to 3-bet the flop. Also notice that he isn't OOP.

[ QUOTE ]
88-KK, regardless of having a club. A9-AQ with or without a club. KT-KQ with a club.

[/ QUOTE ]

he open raised UTG, then capped your 3bet from the bb. this range makes no sense without a read.

holy [censored] even i wouldn't let that many bets go in

gg

[krishanleong]

I check call the turn but I don't dispise the turn lead. I think the river is okay but not great. I don't think 2 pair significantly improved your hand.

I'd range him as 2 pair, set, AA, a flush or AK or Aqc. There are other potential hands but I think these are the most likely.

Krishan

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
holy [censored] even i wouldn't let that many bets go in

gg

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh oh. I guess if AgroHUSHPoster is saying this, I probably put in about 5 too many bets.

However, to be a bit results oriented, at least I won /images/graemlins/smile.gif. Villain showed 75, and then proceeded to cry.

I realize that I did push too hard with this hand, but does anyone think these "reads" I had matter at all?

[TStoneMBD]

[ QUOTE ]
holy [censored] even i wouldn't let that many bets go in

gg

[/ QUOTE ]

didnt expect to see this one come out of you. nh

i agree this hand was hugely overplayed. after youre raised on the turn its time to slow down and cc the river. bet/calling serves no purpose and i dont like checkraising because hes represented a set or perhaps KK with a flush draw and you arent ahead &gt; 66.6% of the time.

i also question some of the other streets but i have a hard time analyzing this hand without having any sense of what type of opponent were up against. of course hes a fishy posting UTG but thats all i know.

[lastcoyote]

Most of the time someone is auto-betting and auto-raising they have a very good made hand that loses if an obvious draw gets there. Especially common among TAGs.

75 with no club is not surprising to me at all here.

[bank]

[ QUOTE ]


75 with no club is not surprising to me at all here.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're saying that Villian raising UTG and then capping hero's 3 bet from the BB with 75 is not the least bit suprising?

[lastcoyote]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


75 with no club is not surprising to me at all here.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're saying that Villian raising UTG and then capping hero's 3 bet from the BB with 75 is not the least bit suprising?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I guess nothing surprises me from an UTG poster. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

But I was really talking about post flop is when I seem to notice this super fast kind of play.

[Guy McSucker]

On the flop, he's either drawing very live or has you boned.

On the river, you've overtaken some of the hands you were losing to, but not all of them by a long way, and the drawing hands have missed. I think check-raise is a bit of a longshot and would prefer to bet-call so as to get value from the pair-plus-draw hands we had beaten all along and the two-pair hands we just overtook while not donating too much to the sets and flushes.

The river three-bet looks ugly. Call and hope he's insane.

As for the turn, I agree with your bet since the 4-bet-freecard is a possibility here; the raise just irritates me and I call it with an appropriately disgusted look on my face. Well played.

Guy.

[Surfbullet]

this hand was overplayed. You got lucky that he was a cap-any-2-pre-maniac who overplays 2 pair. If he's even halfway sane you are spewing, and given that he posted UTG i'm not sure where you are coming up with "reads."

I probably just call down after the flop cap. Unless he's TAG(what TAG posts UTG?) he's not capping for a free card, these guys salivate at the chance to "semibluff" the turn after "capping for a free card" (it doesn't have to make sense). c/c the river after he raises the turn your K doesn't improve you enough over his hand range. If you had c/c'd the turn then a river c/r would be moer in order.

Surf