PS $27 turbo: Defending blinds

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t2365)
MP (t3765)
Button (t2935)
SB (t2475)
Hero (t1960)

Preflop: Hero is BB.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t450</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

What sort of range should BB push with here? (I assume calling really isn't an option given hero is OOP post-flop, correct me if I am wrong.)

Would it make a difference if all the stacks were identical (before posting blinds).

[cha59]

It depends. On a lot of things.

How has button been playing, loose? tight? stealing a lot? is this his first steal of your BB? is he capable of folding to a big reraise? what does he think of the way I'm playing? is he even thinking about that now?

Im probably leaving out a few things, but in order to figure out your own pushing range, you need to put your opponent on a range first. These kind of plays are typically a feel thing for me.

"is calling an option?" - I typically push or fold here, although some people might think a stop and go might be better.

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How has button been playing, loose? tight? stealing a lot? is this his first steal of your BB? is he capable of folding to a big reraise? what does he think of the way I'm playing? is he even thinking about that now?

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He's a typical player at the $27s; I'm a typical reader of this forum who plays the $27s.

[tigerite]

I think you should be very wary about pushing here, seeing as he will only need to be a 40% favourite to call, even by ICM. So you'd need a pretty tight range...

[tigerite]

Made a mistake there. It's actually closer to 45%. Sorry!

Thanks, I haven't done one of these by hand. Maybe I'll start with this one.

You're saying that the odds he'll be getting combined with ICM say that he needs to win only 45% of hands to come out ahead (prize pool equity)?

[tigerite]

Yeah, so I guess it depends what he reads you to have, as well as his cards; it's a very tricky one to answer for re-raises. But when he does call, you need to win the other 55% (which makes sense really). It really depends how loose his raising range is..

Well, part of the question was really what a typical raising range would be. Maybe you can't answer that for the $27s. Is this one of those things that changes significantly from level to level?

And, in a backwards sort of way, I am wondering what the "right" raising range is. I tend to raise very freely in this situation. Perhaps too freely.

[tigerite]

Way tighter than just 'raising very freely', that's for sure. That's definitely a leak, against a stack that has you covered, and won't even be that much affected should he call and lose, in terms of Equity.

It changes from player to player, not just level to level.

There must be some raising range-pushing back range-calling range combination that cannot be improved upon: an equilibrium. Knowing this equilibrium and how to exploit situations where we expect our opponents to deviate from that equilibrium would appear to be useful. I'm not sure how to go about finding that equilibrium, though I may give a little trial and error a shot a bit later.

[Matt R.]

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There must be some raising range-pushing back range-calling range combination that cannot be improved upon: an equilibrium. Knowing this equilibrium and how to exploit situations where we expect our opponents to deviate from that equilibrium would appear to be useful. I'm not sure how to go about finding that equilibrium, though I may give a little trial and error a shot a bit later.

[/ QUOTE ]

eastbay would be the person to ask about this. He's posted about it before, and I think it's pretty easy to find using his SNGPT.

[cha59]

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Well, part of the question was really what a typical raising range would be. Maybe you can't answer that for the $27s. Is this one of those things that changes significantly from level to level?

And, in a backwards sort of way, I am wondering what the "right" raising range is. I tend to raise very freely in this situation. Perhaps too freely.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my experience at any level, the range of villian varies significantly player to player.

I think using Eastbay's tool you can find the mathmatical answers to what is correct to push vs what range villian has if you know his range.

The trick is figuring that out and again, I dont know if I ever look at villian there as "typical for a 27 player" or anything like that.

SNGPT does not take into consideration raises that are not all-in.

[cha59]

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SNGPT does not take into consideration raises that are not all-in.

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Thats true but you can vary some things in it to get an idea of what youre looking for. There are other tools as well.

The point Im trying to make is, I think the most important thing is to have an idea of what you think he has, and what you think he might call with.

[cha59]

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SNGPT does not take into consideration raises that are not all-in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats true but you can vary some things in it to get an idea of what youre looking for. There are other tools as well.

The point Im trying to make is, I think the most important thing is to have an idea of what you think he has, and what you think he might call with.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is along the lines of what Im trying to say here:

link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=4100063&amp;an=0&amp;page=0# Post4100063)

[11t]

This is entirely read dependent. Versus some players you need a Tier 1 hand, versus others you need any two random cards.

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This is entirely read dependent. Versus some players you need a Tier 1 hand, versus others you need any two random cards.

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What do you need against a typical PS $27 turbo player?

[rbear]

Blinds are dead $. Thinking of them as anything other than that forces you into making bad plays.

No standard range, as villians image should be very important in all of these types of decisions. And there's obviously some hands you'd just want to call (AA, KK) ,

[tewall]

It looks like everyone is saying that the players vary a lot, so the question as to what a typical player will do is not helpful. By this stage of the tournament, you should have some idea about how likely the button is to make a play here and have some idea as to how likely he is to raise. This information looks like it would be much more helpful than knowing what a typical player would do here.

If you were the first one to act, it would be a much easier question to answer mathematically.

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Blinds are dead $. Thinking of them as anything other than that forces you into making bad plays.

[/ QUOTE ]
I only meant to describe the situation with "defending blinds", not imply that anyone had any right to the chips in the blinds.

[rbear]

The language we use to describe things gives clues to conscious and subconscious representations. Just a thought /images/graemlins/grin.gif

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It looks like everyone is saying that the players vary a lot, so the question as to what a typical player will do is not helpful.

[/ QUOTE ]
You are not the first to suggest to me that I am not paying enough attention to reads. But, I don't see why saying that this player hasn't stood out as unusually agrressive or passive, that he's typical, isn't something of a read in itself. Nor do I understand with the emphasis on sample sizes in this forum, why anyone puts great stock in any reads acquired in a handful of deals that have taken place to this point in the SNG (this was the 26th deal of the SNG).

Nor do I think, especially for multi-tablers, that understanding what is typical is a bad thing.

[tigerite]

Well, I think typically, if I didn't have reads (which is almost never), to push from the BB here I'd want usually a Tier 1 hand to push. If I'd noticed him being a little active, I'd go down to a Tier 2 one. It'd be rare indeed for me to push any two. I think the risk/reward is too high to do that.