Ed Miller's 6-max Article

[1p0kerb0y]

Overall I think the article was very good. A couple of side notes:

1. It has already been discussed that his "lower rake" comment was probably unintentionally inaccurate.
2. Ed fails to make a note that when playing 6-max games on the internet you most likely will not be able to play AS MANY tables as you could if they were full tables. The reasons behind this are that the action is quicker, you will be in far more pots, and knowing the opposing players' tendecies is much more important.

I'm not an advocate of full ring games. I just think these other items should have been mentioned. I don't play much 6-max because I simply haven't invested the time to learn to play well.

I also would be interested to learn if Ed uses some of the software such as pokertracker and pokerace while playing.

Finally, I think it would be awesome if Ed were to write a 6-max book. Like he said in his article, this game seems to be overtaking the internet in popularity. Have you considered this Ed?

[Nomad84]

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I think it would be awesome if Ed were to write a 6-max book.

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[PJS]

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I think it would be awesome if Ed were to write a 6-max book.

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[MEbenhoe]

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I think it would be awesome if Ed were to write a 6-max book.

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No offense to Ed, but why are you guys so quick to jump on the idea of a guy who has very little experience in these games writing a book on them?

Have any of you guys tried following Ed's advice on 6-max games? I have, and it was not pretty. I don't know what poker site he did his research on, but it definitely was not on Party Poker. I lost with AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, AT, etc. Ed advocates going all the way to the river with "showdown hands", like Ax. Do that, and you'll lose the pair your opponents hit on the flop and checked-called with all the way to the river

[Ed Miller]

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Ed advocates going all the way to the river with "showdown hands", like Ax. Do that, and you'll lose the pair your opponents hit on the flop and checked-called with all the way to the river

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I think you misunderstood my advice a bit. I recommend you prefer hands with showdown value (such as A6s) to those that don't (such as 98s). I recommend... against VERY LOOSE PLAYERS... that you bet your showdown hands aggressively (though not automatically) on the flop and turn.

Against tougher players, autobetting the flop and turn with unimproved hands will be trouble.

EDIT: BTW, I have been playing on Party for the last month or so.

[Ed Miller]

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I think it would be awesome if Ed were to write a 6-max book.

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No offense to Ed, but why are you guys so quick to jump on the idea of a guy who has very little experience in these games writing a book on them?

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*shrug* I don't think a 6-max book is forthcoming from me any time soon. I appreciate the thought, but I've also been asked to write books on topics as diverse as PLO, 2-7 TD, and more.

I think my next book after working on David's NL book will be a novel.

[MEbenhoe]

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I think my next book after working on David's NL book will be a novel.

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now this i find interesting. would it be a poker novel, or something completely unrelated? whichever direction you choose, good luck to you.

[Ed Miller]

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I think my next book after working on David's NL book will be a novel.

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now this i find interesting. would it be a poker novel, or something completely unrelated? whichever direction you choose, good luck to you.

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I have an idea.. it's not poker-related. I may suck at writing novels, though.

[nolanfan34]

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I think my next book after working on David's NL book will be a novel.

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now this i find interesting. would it be a poker novel, or something completely unrelated? whichever direction you choose, good luck to you.

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I have an idea.. it's not poker-related. I may suck at writing novels, though.

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Will it be about a young former computer programmer who married way, way up? /images/graemlins/wink.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

If anything regarding the 6-max article, I would have emphasized the increased variance more. I've been trying to play it a bit, and I've never lost money so quickly when I hit a bad stretch. Took me a little by surprise, and I imagine it's not that uncommon at all. Those prone to tilting could get burned pretty badly I would think.

Good thoughts in the article though, I imagine if I was running better it would be profitable.

[velvetdog]

I eagerly anticipate any of Ed's (or David or Mason's) books. I am wetting myself in anticipation of the NL book. Mason said NL was dead (essays Vol 1) but I think he was wrong - I need to read 2-3etc. Anyway the point of this ramble is that I owe Ed, David, and others big time. I am right now sitting on a short term 20+ BB win at 1/2 single table over 3hrs and I owe it all to 2+2., OMFG - I cannot even articulate the knowledge I have gained from you and Ed and David and Mason and Ray. I would be able happy to send you your bevarage of choice (or buy you live - I will be in LV in Feb on a corporate junket at bellagio). Thanks for everything - you have given me a 2nd career and I owe u big time./ Sorry I was not able to send u wedding present ED.

[WriterBoy]

I am interested in the 6-max side of limit. But as a newb I'd like a preflop consideration table.
A "getting started in 6-max," if you will.

[Gabe]

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I think it would be awesome if Ed were to write a 6-max book.

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No offense to Ed, but why are you guys so quick to jump on the idea of a guy who has very little experience in these games writing a book on them?

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Well, although he had little experience, compared to me, when he wrote his holdem book, I think it was the best holdem book I've read, and I'm pretty sure it made a lot of the people who read it a lot of money.

[axioma]

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I think it would be awesome if Ed were to write a 6-max book.

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i would not like this idea at all.

one of the reasons that makes 6-max profitable at the moment is that there is no cookie-cutter "guide" on the game, for those either too lazy or simply not able to work it out for themselves.

this steep learning curve is a good thing in my opinion. i dont want people to just be able to pick up a book and jump into the game with a reasonable formular right off the bat, let them do some work themselves.

any book that ed would write on 6-max, with all respect to him, would not help most of the 2+2ers on this forums who make 6-max their home a great deal, if at all really. it would help lazy newcomers to the game a hell of a lot however.

anyway, a 6-max book would not be comercially profitable i wouldnt have thought, so dont expect one from 2+2 any time soon.

When will Davids NL book be in stores?

[mojobluesman]

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I think you misunderstood my advice a bit. I recommend you prefer hands with showdown value (such as A6s) to those that don't (such as 98s). I recommend... against VERY LOOSE PLAYERS... that you bet your showdown hands aggressively (though not automatically) on the flop and turn.

Against tougher players, autobetting the flop and turn with unimproved hands will be trouble.

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I'm not sure I understand your advice completely.

I understand why you want to play the hands with showdown value.

In one way, I like playing against the fish because they showdown with any crap and my overcards will win more money than when they have the small pair and I check the river and lose.

In another way, I like playing against the tigher players because I can win with the inferior hand more often just by showing some agression and driving them off their small pair.

On a related issue, if you are out of position and bet your overcard against a fish and he calls the flop and turn and then you check the river and he bets, is that almost an automatic fold. The problem here is that once you check, you really don't know if he's trying to steal the pot with garbage because you didn't follow through with a bet on the river or whether is has the small pair.

[Rockatansky]

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I think my next book after working on David's NL book will be a novel.

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now this i find interesting. would it be a poker novel, or something completely unrelated? whichever direction you choose, good luck to you.

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I have an idea.. it's not poker-related. I may suck at writing novels, though.

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What, no TILT fanfic?

[MisterKing]

A concept I've found indispensible in the very aggressive 5/10 6-max games has been something Andrew Prock termed "The Wall." The strategy, essenitally boils down to this: when you have the initiative, bet; when you do not have the initiative, call."

Now, you won't want to use The Wall in 6-max NLHE games, and you won't want to use it against passive players either. That said, you will absolutely want to use it against maniacs and other LAG-types, plus perhaps unknown players who are exibiting an aggressive style in your first few hands of observing them. With respect to unknowns, there is simply no replacement for pokertracker, a solid HUD program, and data mining, of course, but you'll still see completely unknown players from time to time. My overarching point here is 1.) you should know most of your opponents ahead of time, and 2.) since you're playing 6-max, you'll find a much larger share of very aggressive to maniacaly aggressive players than you would in full ring games.

When would I advocate using the wall? Well, I'm not sure when it is optimal to use this strategy (and surely there are some better situations to use it and some worse), but I do know that when I have a hand that has showdown value, and I'm out of position against a very aggressive player, I frequently use it.

Just as Ed points out the inherent value in betting calling stations to death, there is likely an equal value in calling the raising stations to death. As far as I can tell, in many 6-max games there are as many of the latter type of opponent as there are of the former.

At any rate, I thought I'd throw the thought out there. Could be I'm repeating someone else or just pointing out the obvious... though I didn't really even think about "The Wall" or think deeply about its beautiful simplicity until after about 50K hands at 6-max. I certainly wish I'd been more thoughtful earlier on.

A rare instance in which I didnt think a Miller article was very good. The isolate 96o with A4s example just wont work in a 10/20 short game.

[Xhad]

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Mason said NL was dead (essays Vol 1) but I think he was wrong

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It was probably true at the time he wrote it; NL cash did all but die until televised tournament poker revived it.

[wonkadaddy]

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A rare instance in which I didnt think a Miller article was very good. The isolate 96o with A4s example just wont work in a 10/20 short game.

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sort of agree w/you. conceptually the point ed makes is powerful, but the example just isn't characteristic of the play at even 3/6, and definitely not higher. folks just don't call that passively w/crap.

[koolmoe]

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A rare instance in which I didnt think a Miller article was very good. The isolate 96o with A4s example just wont work in a 10/20 short game.

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sort of agree w/you. conceptually the point ed makes is powerful, but the example just isn't characteristic of the play at even 3/6, and definitely not higher. folks just don't call that passively w/crap.

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From my experience playing 5/10 6max at Party in the first half of this year, I'd say that there are definitely players that loose and passive. They may not be a dime a dozen (maybe more like 1 in 20), but if you datamine, you'll find them. At least I did 6 months ago. YMMV.

The key (to me) seems to be finding a seat where you can isolate such players and not get aggressively and routinely three-bet preflop by players to your left.

The thing I liked about 6-max is that some of the sick beats you see there more often turn tables into tiltfest feeding frenzies than you see at full table games at the same stakes.

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Mason said NL was dead (essays Vol 1) but I think he was wrong

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It was probably true at the time he wrote it; NL cash did all but die until televised tournament poker revived it.

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NL was dead at the time he wrote that. There was little or no online poker, and the live NL games were truly NL. They had no buy-in caps. Poor players quickly went bust in such games. Today, a fish can buy into a $25 online game and brag about playing NL, the Cadillac of poker.

[12AX7]

No doubt. LOL!

In 98-99 poker dealers in Vegas said to me, "Dude Poker is dying in Vegas... all those local casinos, no one comes here for poker any more."

TV changes things, huh? :-)

[Nottom]

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A rare instance in which I didnt think a Miller article was very good. The isolate 96o with A4s example just wont work in a 10/20 short game.

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sort of agree w/you. conceptually the point ed makes is powerful, but the example just isn't characteristic of the play at even 3/6, and definitely not higher. folks just don't call that passively w/crap.

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I see players like this all the time in the 3/6 game. Its not most people so you can't use this as a blanket strategy, but I'd say there is usually at least one of these types at every other table I play at (part of which is likely table selection on my end). Sometimes even when that guy is around it doesn't mean you are in a position to fully take advantage of him, but when you can Ed's line should be a pretty standard thing and shouldn't be new to anyone with any 6-max experience.