river bet?

[bakku]

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter (http://www.pokerhand.org)

oops forgot reads
SB slightly LAG but not a retard
BB very loose very passive
MP very lose very passive
CO loose, a bit laggy

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB caps</font>, BB calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (20 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

River: (17.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, CO checks, i do what?

[Spicymoose]

Bet that river! Tons of value! If you get check raised, I think easy fold, but I could be wrong. With 5 players, and noone leading the river, I expect we good. I think we could at least get 1-3 BB here.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet that river! Tons of value! If you get check raised, I think easy fold, but I could be wrong. With 5 players, and noone leading the river, I expect we good. I think we could at least get 1-3 BB here.

[/ QUOTE ]

respectfully disagree. I think SB has us beat or weirdly split almost all the time here with two pair or a set and is just scared of the four cards to broadway.

SB capped preflop yo

[Spicymoose]

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[ QUOTE ]
Bet that river! Tons of value! If you get check raised, I think easy fold, but I could be wrong. With 5 players, and noone leading the river, I expect we good. I think we could at least get 1-3 BB here.

[/ QUOTE ]

respectfully disagree. I think SB has us beat or weirdly split almost all the time here with two pair or a set and is just scared of the four cards to broadway.

SB capped preflop yo

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I guess you are right. This definetly makes it close for me. Remember though, with so many opponents, we only need to be right not so often, as we could win more than 1 BB, but could lose at most 1 BB. It is true that SB might have us beat though. I dunno, I think its close.

[admiralfluff]

any reads, esp. on SB? If he's a tight enough capper that you don't raise the flop, I don't see what hand he could possibly have that you beat on the river. He probably got scared with a set or better 2 pair, or is getting tricky with TT. I don't think he has 99 or worse often enough to bet, but that also depends on how many other callers you are likely to get.

[B Dids]

I'm having a hard time finding value in a bet there. A crying check maybe?

[imported_leader]

Don't tell me your playing 5/10 without any reads. I think I would raise the flop because SB could be capping a little light here with say 99 or KQs/AJs, and you've got 3-donks in the pot calling away. That turn isn't any fun though.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't tell me your playing 5/10 without any reads. I think I would raise the flop because SB could be capping a little light here with say 99 or KQs/AJs, and you've got 3-donks in the pot calling away. That turn isn't any fun though.

[/ QUOTE ]

or AK, I think I like raising the flop

I still hate hate hate betting the river

[imported_leader]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't tell me your playing 5/10 without any reads. I think I would raise the flop because SB could be capping a little light here with say 99 or KQs/AJs, and you've got 3-donks in the pot calling away. That turn isn't any fun though.

[/ QUOTE ]

or AK,

[/ QUOTE ]

or TT. I was just referring to things that he wouldn't normally cap if it when say: he raises, you 3-bet.

[MrWookie47]

While I overwhelmingly respond to posts of this title with "easy value bet," I don't think that's the case here. I check this. You're ahead of BB, MP, and CO a reasonable amount of the time, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a scared JJ from SB.

[admiralfluff]

The more I think about it the more I like raising the flop. If SB reraises, having 2 other players to act after him really makes this juicier. They either call, so our deficit is not as large, or they fold, so our equity share is larger. It would be even better if we had strong enough reads on SB so we could fold the river UI.

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't tell me your playing 5/10 without any reads. I think I would raise the flop because SB could be capping a little light here with say 99 or KQs/AJs, and you've got 3-donks in the pot calling away. That turn isn't any fun though.

[/ QUOTE ]

why can't i play 5/10 without reads? how do i get reads on people if i dont play?

i don't like raising the flop because i wont get anyone out, i just bloat the pot when i'm behind and i reopen the betting. also, SB is going to have me beat most of the time when he bets into 4 people on this flop

[MrWookie47]

Our equity share is larger? Really? I'd be a pretty marginal increase. If SB 3bets us, we can be pretty sure we're drawing to 5 outs or fewer. If, hypothetically, one or two of those outs are tainted, we get an increase in equity of no more than 8%. If we knew we would be gaining that much in this huge pot, it'd be worth it, but I don't think our gain in equity will be worth 2 SB very often.

[admiralfluff]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's worth it to get 3-bet, but we will gain SOME equity in this huge pot, which will hedge the cost. The flop raise itself should be for value.

in short: with 2 other players left to act behing SB, the cost of the risk of getting 3 bet is lower than it would be HU with SB.

[imported_leader]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't tell me your playing 5/10 without any reads. I think I would raise the flop because SB could be capping a little light here with say 99 or KQs/AJs, and you've got 3-donks in the pot calling away. That turn isn't any fun though.

[/ QUOTE ]

why can't i play 5/10 without reads? how do i get reads on people if i dont play?

[/ QUOTE ]

Partymine. It's worth it

[ QUOTE ]
i don't like raising the flop because i wont get anyone out i just bloat the pot when i'm behind

[/ QUOTE ]

So when you're ahead the money doesn't go in the pot? Seriously though, you're ahead more then your fair share. Protecting your hand is never going to happen. So it's just a value game at this point.

[ QUOTE ]
and i reopen the betting.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a legitimate concern, but I don't think it out ways the value you gain.

[ QUOTE ]
also, SB is going to have me beat most of the time when he bets into 4 people on this flop

[/ QUOTE ]

That’s true, but He’s not the only one in the pot.

[jason_t]

I would not raise the flop like some have suggested. I would call to reevaluate on the turn. This turn is tough. You picked up a gutshot but are likely drawing to half of the pot. If we're behind a Q might not even be an out and of course our A outs are very dirty. I would check behind on this river.

havent read anything but I play it the same no way I bet river, I dont see anything calling you enough to make it +ev with the c\r factor in it id check through

[danzasmack]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm having a hard time finding value in a bet there. A crying check maybe?

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagreed until i saw PF action. I go with a check here as well.

[B Dids]

Can I just say that I really dislike the "OMG NO READS PLZ DATAMINE" argument here?

One of the skills we need to develop as players is learning about people from scratch. To pretend like not using datamined stats is a mistake is just taking far to narrow a view of the game and how and why people are playing.

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]

i don't like raising the flop because i wont get anyone out, i just bloat the pot when i'm behind and i reopen the betting. also, SB is going to have me beat most of the time when he bets into 4 people on this flop

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't let this go. One of my pet peeves is when people suggest they won't bet/raise out of fear that they are bloating the pot, thereby giving others better odds to chase. The fact is that people are often going to call with draws regardless of whether you get in an extra bet, so might as well bet for value anyway.

[jba]

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i don't like raising the flop because i wont get anyone out, i just bloat the pot when i'm behind and i reopen the betting. also, SB is going to have me beat most of the time when he bets into 4 people on this flop

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't let this go. One of my pet peeves is when people suggest they won't bet/raise out of fear that they are bloating the pot, thereby giving others better odds to chase. The fact is that people are often going to call with draws regardless of whether you get in an extra bet, so might as well bet for value anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't think this is the only reason bloating the pot with a marginal hand is bad. it can also tie us to the pot and make us chase.

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
If, hypothetically, one or two of those outs are tainted, we get an increase in equity of no more than 8%.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wookie, how did you get this 8%?

[Surfbullet]

As Mr Wookie said, I almost invariably respond to posts with a title such as this with something along the lines of: "OMG Easy bet" and then launch into a tirade on the evils of weak-tight here.

However, I think this is a check behind on the river, and the turn is close but the pot is huge so I don't mind the call. This is often a scared set from SB, and while none of the callers / checkers have me particularly worried there has to be a huge parlay of things going right to get any value on this river.

Surf