98s and I play goofy and/or with l33t skillz

[B Dids]

Party 3/6 6 max table. We're 5 handed.

the SB and BB are bid time donks. Calling down with anything, raising 3rd pair on the turn, they're pretty much seeing very flop while in the blinds.

I'm UTG with 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gifs and I raise.

CO is new to the table, but has lousy stats in a pointless sample size from another table. He folds.

Button seems solid. He's got wise to the face that I've been isolating pretty light (but mostly I've just had like nonstop good cards preflop). He thinks for a bit, and 3-bets.

The blinds fold, which is unexpected and lame.

The flop comes 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif T /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I check, he bets, I raise, he 3-bets, I call.

My thoughts here: I've been playing slightly conservative preflop. I don't think he 3-bets me here without a pretty good holding. My only hesitation is that based on his play so far, he really did tank preflop, so I'm thinking it's slightly less likely that he's got a big pair.

The turn is the 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I check, he bets, I call. For some reason I don't love my hand right now.

River is the 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I check, he bets, I raise with the intention of folding to a 3-bet.

what does he have on the turn that beats you?

[brazilio]

checkraise the turn, way too many draws out for you to be playing around. I don't fold the river UI if he 3-bets either, it doesn't sound like you have enough hands on him to do that. Your table image seems to be pretty loose right now, don't know if you've been showing down those good cards or not, but now probably isn't a good time to mix it up with raising 98s UTG.

[deepsquat]

im c/ring the turn with probably the best hand and outs.

I dont like getting fancy with river raises + if he has KQ you wont be getting paid off. Make him pay, as he will prob never fold this turn with a worse hand.

[jba]

wow I love my hand if I'm you and I bet/3bet the turn

with how oddly you have played this hand I don't think I could fold on the river. I mean if he has the nut two pair he's going to have a hard time putting you on Q9 or an 8 here. that might mean i wouldn't c/r the river, but I don't know.

[admiralfluff]

I really don't like this line. He'll almost always at least call a turn c/r, and is capable of 3 betting the river with something you beat. Would he really "tank" preflop with TT/JJ, but not QQ/KK? I would c/r the turn. The question then is what to do if he 3-bets.

[B Dids]

The other reason I waited till the river was that if he had a simple one pair hand, I think he can fold to the turn raise a lot easier than the river raise.

[Alobar]

dids....fold preflop, and given the read you think he has a good hand, bet/3bet the turn, cuz your donk looks like a gay ass bluff that he will gladly raise....dont fold to a river 3 bet


irc copy paste kicks ass!! omg lolorz11!!1!11BBQ!!abcdefg!!!11

[bakku]

hey dids,

1. fold preflop
2. i don't like the flop c/r, he's not folding anything you want him to fold and if he happens to have a small PP, you dont want him to fold.
3. more action needs to go in on this turn, i'm not giving him credit for a big hand just yet. bet/3-bet or c/r. i prefer bet/3-bet because i dont want to let him check behind with AK/AQ and your hand looks weak when you donk the turn and he's going to let you 3-bet him often
4. folding to a river 3-bet is disastrous. don't try and make big folds when you've underrepresented your hand and your opponent thinks your hand is weaker than it actually is

[imported_anacardo]

Why on earth should he fold preflop?

[Digs]

because 98s utg isn't profitable?

I really dont think making shania plays at the 5/10 is worth it.

[imported_anacardo]

UTG five-handed? I feel very comfortable either calling or raising and don't understand why I shouldn't.

[Digs]

Seriously, the only time I ever open limp is when I'm on the button with a marginal holding and the blinds defend like 60%+.

Didn't see it was 5handed, but 98s is still marginal utg 5handed.

Typically I open jts and better from there as far as the sc's go.

[admiralfluff]

[ QUOTE ]

because 98s utg isn't profitable?

I really dont think making shania plays at the 5/10 is worth it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I strongly disagree with 2/2 of these points. Given his description of the table, and give a conducive image, 98s UTG should be quite profitable. It's not the way it worked out, but the plan should have been to isolate the donks in the blinds, even taking a small ev deficit preflop, because it will be easy to make it up against them postflop when hero has position on 2 mega donks.

I also think bakku's comment about the flop play is the most interesting point of contention in this thread, and deserves a good bit of discussion. bakku: If we don't c/c the flop, and a blank turn falls, what's our plan? I like the flop c/r because we should have an edge here, and if we're behind it sets up a turn c/r when we hit, and a river fold if we miss. If we don't c/r the flop, and just c/c a blank turn, I think we're committed to SD, which might not be good.

[Digs]

leaving preflop aside.

If the player is thinking and know's we've been light with our rasies, I dislike a flop c/r.

We might have an equity edge, but a thinking player can push us off on the turn with a free ui showdown line. Typically I'm going to c/c c/c and donk/fold the river agiasnt someone who I know is capable of putting moves on me.

We're ahead of a decent part of his range here, and I'd much rather fold to a raise where there's a 0% chance of a semibluff.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]


I strongly disagree with 2/2 of these points. Given his description of the table, and give a conducive image, 98s UTG should be quite profitable. It's not the way it worked out, but the plan should have been to isolate the donks in the blinds, even taking a small ev deficit preflop, because it will be easy to make it up against them postflop when hero has position on 2 mega donks.


[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with this statement. YOu are trying to isolate the blinds while utg??? Thats stretching it a bit. And you can say "well it didnt work out this in this situation, but..." but thats exactly one of the factors that goes into why I dont like it, because you are still UTG, and what happened here isnt some rare anomoly. (ie you get 3 bet by someone who has postion, or even the other 2 guys cold call).

Also even should the play work, I dont get excited about playing 9 high against TWO morons. Talk about reverse implied odds. Sure it works out great all the times you flop a monster, and 98s sure looks secy for that, but lets not forget that the majority of the time you are going to have a very marginal hand vs 2 opponents who are going to play correctly against you postflop in those situations, even if it is by toital accident. And I think those situations happen waaaay more than you would like to make 98s profitable in this spot.

[B Dids]

FWIW- my thinking was basically what af said, but after talking to drunk Alobar, Entity and rmarotti, all of whom are smarter/better than me, I changed my mind.