KTo in a big multi-way pot

[brettbrettr]

This is from a hand I played earlier this evening. Great Borg 10/20 game, it alternates between loose passive and loose aggressive., Most guys get in line post-flop, but pre-flop, if you're in for one you're in for 4.

2 limpers to me in the hijack and I limp with K /images/graemlins/spade.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif

The CO (an aggro good but not overly so player waiting for the 20 game) raises, the button (a not so good but somewhat aggro loose but trying to play well player) calls, both blinds call, limpers call, I call.

7 to the flop for 14 sbs: J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Both blinds check, utg (nice guy, bad player, very loose, calls down with anything) bets. UTG +1 folds. I raise...

[W. Deranged]

Well...

You pretty much have to see the turn at least because the pot's so big. And there are a bunch of good things about raising, the foremost being the possibility of cleaning up your K outs.

So, sure. The real fear here is you get three-knocked by the button, but in that case you'd have put in 2 sb anyway and the small expense of the extra SB risked has value.

Basically I like this because you can never really be far wrong throwing in an extra flop bet in a huge pot.

[BWebb]

From your description of CO, I'm guessing you think he is the type to fold AK here to a raise. The raise is then an effort to clean up some outs. Additionally, you might get a free card out of this is you can clear out the CO and Button. You are probably getting 3-bet by a very good hand, which will also let you know if a K is not going to be an out. Plus, if someone does have a monster they might not 3-bet the flop thinking they can checkraise you on this flush drawless board (IMO, bad players only associate the free card raise with flush draws and not straights.) I'm just rambling here, but I think a lot of good things can come from this raise so I like it.

[bakku]

i can dig it

[Siegmund]

Um... am I the only one here who would never have played KTo in the first place? Especially if I expect a big multiway pot is likely?

If you do, and you're committed to calling anyway because of the pot size, yes, it seems like you can gain some useful benefits from raising the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
Um... am I the only one here who would never have played KTo in the first place? Especially if I expect a big multiway pot is likely?

If you do, and you're committed to calling anyway because of the pot size, yes, it seems like you can gain some useful benefits from raising the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

In a good game folding KTo is a mistake here.

[thejameser]

i like it. not just cleaning up your King outs, even any overcard to your ten that folds is great. you have a reasonable possibility of getting a free card, as you said most of the maniacal play was going on preflop. getting 3 bet would suck, but it is not the end of the world as it may get you HU with CO if he is the one 3 betting(granted OOP sucks, but hey you can't have it all). anyway, i think raising is better than calling if you are continuing(which you are with a gutshot to the nuts in such a big pot).

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
pre-flop, if you're in for one you're in for 4

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this why you didn't raise preflop? This looks like a pretty juicy chance to get the button.

[brettbrettr]

I didn't even think of raising pre-flop, never once. Interesting.

[me454555]

[ QUOTE ]
In a good game folding KTo is a mistake here

[/ QUOTE ]

Read the description again, he states that CO is pretty good and aggressive. I'd rather not play KTo behind 2 other limpers and oop against an aggro oppoent. If I was OTB you can make a case for limping but with 2 behind you I think its a pretty clear fold.

Postflop is fine though

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]

Read the description again, he states that CO is pretty good and aggressive. I'd rather not play KTo behind 2 other limpers and oop against an aggro oppoent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Button will play anything for one, but CO will fold 75% of his hands here.

As for the pre-flop raise question, I thought this might be a close preflop decision between calling and folding. Raising never entered into my mind.