279BB deep 10/25 hand

[nigelloring]

I'm a short handed NL Holdem specialist, but am trying to prepare for the big cash games in Tunica next January.

I would like to ask when a laydown was appropriate for villain. Thanks in advance.

Ultimate Bet Pot-Limit Omaha High, $25 BB (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB ($8677.50)
Hero ($6970)
UTG :#A500AF(Player1)/ ($7740)
Button :#A500AF(Player2)/ ($1855)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG :#A500AF(Player1)/ raises to $85</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls $75, Hero calls $60.

Flop: ($255) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $255</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1020</font>, Player1 folds, SB calls $765.

Turn: ($2295) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $2295</font>, SB calls $2295.

River: ($6885) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $3570 (All-In)</font>, SB calls $3570.

Final Pot: $14025

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
hero shows 7s 7c 6h Kc.
hero has 7c Kc Ac 6c 3c: flush, ace high.
villain mucks cards.
(villain has 4c 2h 3d Qc.)

Outcome: Hero wins $14025. </font>

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero raises to $1020

[/ QUOTE ]

That's when. When you play short handed like this you can't allow yourself to be trapped into giving too much action with non-nut hands when you have no redraws and don't have the betting lead.

[whodaman]

you should have given us villians hand not heros if you wanted comments on villians play.

[nigelloring]

Just for my reference, would you say this is the laydown spot for the second nut flush in holdem too?

It hurts my head trying to adjust. After playing one evening of short-handed PLO I would estimate I've given up a ****load of edge, but thankfully so have my opponents, I think.

There appears to be plenty of room for me to learn. Where's the best place to find good short-handed games (I don't mind losing money at them as long as I'm learning something)? My bankroll is big, but I also don't mind starting at penny stakes if you guys think that's best for learning.

[nigelloring]

Villain's hand was 4c 2h 3d Qc, i.e. second nut flush.

Sorry, it is in white in the OP - I was having some trouble with the hand converter.

[nigelloring]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hero raises to $1020

[/ QUOTE ]

That's when. When you play short handed like this you can't allow yourself to be trapped into giving too much action with non-nut hands when you have no redraws and don't have the betting lead.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what if I just hold the Kc but no other clubs? Then is it PLO "basic strategy" to bluff reraise the flop?

[BluffTHIS!]

Well the key difference between holdem and plo is that the situations where there is 1st nut flush or full versus the 2nd nut occurs way more often. And the drawing hands run bigger and some big draws are actually favorites over sets. And even though shorthanded you don't expect nearly as often to run into these situations, they do occur and you just have to be prepared both to lay down the 2nd nuts and also not to try to push bluffs too far against determined calling stations. And as far as where to play, you can often just sit at a table if you want headsup or 3 way action. But until you do adjust and learn more it would be prudent to do so at lower limits although more of the players willing to play shorthanded plo play high.

Besides the posts here, there is a ton in the archives, and you should also read the basic plo texts often mentioned here, namely Ciaffone and Ciaffone/Reuben.

[punter11235]

To be honest I would buddy list Villain after seeing his play in the hand. Too many people are afraid of being bluffed by lone nut flush card (K/images/graemlins/club.gif in this example) and payoff bigtime with their second nut.
This is very small pot after your first raise... giving up is cheap and calling with call down plan is putting yourself at the mercy of your opponent.
I agree with BluffTHIS, muck after first raise. Next hand.

[bugstud]

man his call pf also is pretty awful. ni han.

[ QUOTE ]
To be honest I would buddy list Villain after seeing his play in the hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Its more important that you add into your notes that this villain pays through the nose drawing down against your made nut flush.

[stigmata]

Are other people defending their blind with Hero's hand? I know you have to defend pretty liberally to stop getting runover, and that you can defend pretty liberally because of the low preflop equity of any hand over another. Hero's hand is probably on my lower range of defending hands. Is this about right?

[nigelloring]

[ QUOTE ]
Are other people defending their blind with Hero's hand? I know you have to defend pretty liberally to stop getting runover, and that you can defend pretty liberally because of the low preflop equity of any hand over another. Hero's hand is probably on my lower range of defending hands. Is this about right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be really interested to hear others' opinions on this. My hand doesn't have a ton of nut potential, and could end up costing me a lot of money OOP. But how much do you compensate for the short-handedness?

[Marnixvdb]

Horrible play by villain. Most of the times he shouldnt even be betting the flop and he should definitely lay down after your raise on the flop.

In your spot, had you only had the lone Kc: You can try to bluff raise it, and even though it wouldnt have worked with this [censored] villain, it will work some time. Remember though, that also sets will call you (and thus win the pot).

Villain should have gotten away from his hand on the flop. I can understand him calling if he had AA in with this hand, but otherwise it should be folded on the flop. Some players just arent capable of making this laydown, even in PLO.

As far as learning PLO, which, I still am, I'll let you know when I get there.



Tex

[Maulik]

I could not imagine stacking myself in this spot as the villain did....

Nice hand.

First, let me say that betting the flop is not horrible by the villain. He's OOP. He has to throw a line out there sometime.

Second, what's this line about "sets will call you (and thus win the pot)"

&gt;&gt;&gt;???



Tex

[ QUOTE ]
Second, what's this line about "sets will call you (and thus win the pot)"

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it was refering to a naked K bluff, which the Villian must have been hoping for. Or, he was just a maniac....

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
First, let me say that betting the flop is not horrible by the villain. He's OOP. He has to throw a line out there sometime.

Second, what's this line about "sets will call you (and thus win the pot)"

&gt;&gt;&gt;???



Tex

[/ QUOTE ]

checking this flop with the second nut flush is SUBSTANTIALLY better if he's going to stack off when he bets it.

EDIT


Betting w/ the intention of folding to a raise.


(i thought that was implied and/or given)



Tex