Stars $60 what does villain have?

[bawcerelli]

PokerStars Game #3233414914: Tournament #16005098, Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2005/12/03 - 21:10:59 (ET)
Table '16005098 1' Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: till123 (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: koolrap (2100 in chips)
Seat 3: SuperSteamer (1540 in chips)
Seat 5: Tess Ticke (1770 in chips)
Seat 6: jpiedog (690 in chips)
Seat 7: doogie0079 (3000 in chips)
Seat 8: gentleman55 (1480 in chips)
Seat 9: pingko (1420 in chips)
gentleman55: posts small blind 10
pingko: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to gentleman55 [Kh Kc]
till123: folds
koolrap: raises 60 to 80
SuperSteamer: folds
Tess Ticke: calls 80
jpiedog: folds
doogie0079: calls 80
gentleman55: raises 320 to 400
pingko: folds
koolrap: raises 320 to 720

A A, the other two Kings, or Q Q. I can't see villain doing this with A Ko-A Ks or anything lower following your reraise.

[KingDan]

Who gives a [censored] what he has, you have kings. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[rbear]

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Who gives a [censored] what he has, you have kings. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

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[bawcerelli]

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Who gives a [censored] what he has, you have kings. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

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is he not telegraphing that he has aces? (or that he wants me to think he has aces?)

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Who gives a [censored] what he has, you have kings. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

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is he not telegraphing that he has aces? (or that he wants me to think he has aces?)

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If he does have Aces, you'd do better to have 7 7.

[rbear]

Many times villian does have aces. But, the times villian has AK, KK, QQ, JJ, 10 10, or is maniac with something else makes getting all your chips in at this spot every time /images/graemlins/grin.gif Better luck next time.
p.s. you tend to remember the times villian has the latter than the times villian has aces.

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Many times villian does have aces. But, the times villian has AK, KK, QQ, JJ, 10 10, or is maniac with something else makes getting all your chips in at this spot every time /images/graemlins/grin.gif Better luck next time.
p.s. you tend to remember the times villian has the latter than the times villian has aces.

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I tend to remember the times he has Aces more because obviously I'm getting knocked out more times than winning. Plus, this is a $60, not a $5.50. With the way the action went, I don't see a winning player in the $60s reraising with J J or 10 10 here.

[rbear]

uh, you haven't played in the 60s then

and how do you know IT'S A WINNING PLAYER, you just assume it?

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uh, you haven't played in the 60s then

and how do you know IT'S A WINNING PLAYER, you just assume it?

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No, I haven't played in the $60s but even if I had, holding J J or 10 10 facing a cold call and a big reraise, I'm ditching my hooks and my double dimes. Whether I'm assuming or not, this is a losing play to me in the long run.

[rbear]

You're missing the point. You give villian WAY too much credit here, where they should fold JJ TT AK etc,. Folding KK in a SnG here preflop is way too weak tight, and you're cutting into your long term ROI, imo.

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You're missing the point. You give villian WAY too much credit here, where they should fold JJ TT AK etc,. Folding KK in a SnG here preflop is way too weak tight, and you're cutting into your long term ROI, imo.

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I never told OP to fold. I commented on his original question as to what villain held. Plus, I don't see anybody re-reraising with J J and 10 10 in a multiway pot as being a good play in the long run. Also, with A Ko or A Ks, you're better pushing all-in instead rather than re-reraising. If you're called and miss the flop, you've committed too many of your chips. That kind of play is best suited for a more deeper-stacked game and a $60 STT doesn't qualify.

[Bluff Daddy]

folding this would be really bad unless you knew villain would only do this with aa which I dont think you do.

[rbear]

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You're missing the point. You give villian WAY too much credit here, where they should fold JJ TT AK etc,. Folding KK in a SnG here preflop is way too weak tight, and you're cutting into your long term ROI, imo.

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I don't see anybody re-reraising with J J and 10 10 in a multiway pot as being a good play

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For the last time, you're giving villian way too much credit here.

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You're missing the point. You give villian WAY too much credit here, where they should fold JJ TT AK etc,. Folding KK in a SnG here preflop is way too weak tight, and you're cutting into your long term ROI, imo.

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I don't see anybody re-reraising with J J and 10 10 in a multiway pot as being a good play

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For the last time, you're giving villian way too much credit here.

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How? It's been said in this thread that players in the $60s are making this play with J J, 10 10, and A K. I'm saying if you're the initial raiser preflop with J J or 10 10, you get two cold callers and then a reraiser who goes over the pot, I think it's suicide to reraise back or even call. I honestly don't see this as a good play even if you don't know what OP has. You have the consider the two cold callers in the pot too. Obviously, I'm putting villain on a monster if he re-reraises back. My thoughts are he has a hand stronger than J J or 10 10. If he has A Ko or A Ks, I still think the re-reraise back is a dumb play. You might as well push. Once again, I'm not advocating OP fold. My guess is, OP re-re-raised back all-in and they went to the death.

For the last time, you're giving villian way too much credit here.

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Dbach = Donk

[rbear]

Ok bro, thanks for the elaboration.
Now I understand exactly where your misunderstanding lies. This whole post, we assume hero has KK. Villian plays this way w/ TT-KK, and AK too often to ever fold this spot. That's all. Easy fold if hero has TT or JJ.

[bawcerelli]

what is your regular buy in rbear?

[rbear]

$22-$55, and there's not much differnce between them

[gisb0rne]

I put villian on crap. That's what he usually has.

[bawcerelli]

the reason i ask is i'm not seeing raises in this spot with the range of hands you gave. the 27's yeah, but not the 60's. anyhow i pushed and he flipped over AA.

[rbear]

Even if you tighten up villians range to qq-aa aks (which you'll see a lot more often then TT and JJ, it's way too good to pass up.

[cha59]

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the reason i ask is i'm not seeing raises in this spot with the range of hands you gave. the 27's yeah, but not the 60's. anyhow i pushed and he flipped over AA.

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I bet you saw it coming too. That sucks. Ive had that happen to me plenty of times too. The thing is, we forget all the times we push with KK and the moran raiser has AK or JJ. The big losses stick with you more.

You made the right play, unless you know this player from playing about 1000 sng's with him and AA is the only hand he plays that way.

[bigt439]

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the reason i ask is i'm not seeing raises in this spot with the range of hands you gave. the 27's yeah, but not the 60's. anyhow i pushed and he flipped over AA.

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This thread sucks.

Don't fold KK here. He has a range that makes it profitable for you to get all-in. Isn't this in the FAQ or something?

[bawcerelli]

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the reason i ask is i'm not seeing raises in this spot with the range of hands you gave. the 27's yeah, but not the 60's. anyhow i pushed and he flipped over AA.

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This thread sucks.

Don't fold KK here. He has a range that makes it profitable for you to get all-in. Isn't this in the FAQ or something?

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lol, i never asked if i should fold this. i asked what hand we expected to see here.

[rbear]

after some more thought, i think it's JJ-AA AK, JJ least

[bigt439]

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the reason i ask is i'm not seeing raises in this spot with the range of hands you gave. the 27's yeah, but not the 60's. anyhow i pushed and he flipped over AA.

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This thread sucks.

Don't fold KK here. He has a range that makes it profitable for you to get all-in. Isn't this in the FAQ or something?

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lol, i never asked if i should fold this. i asked what hand we expected to see here.

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Fair enough. Sane player: JJ+, AQs+, Good player: Probably nothing. This minraise is fishy. Ridiculous player: 77+, ATs+. Depends on the person, but there are lots of really bad players. Not many that fall into the ridiculous category, but they can have a lot. This can be at least my first range for the vast majority of players though.

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the reason i ask is i'm not seeing raises in this spot with the range of hands you gave. the 27's yeah, but not the 60's. anyhow i pushed and he flipped over AA.

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This thread sucks.

Don't fold KK here. He has a range that makes it profitable for you to get all-in. Isn't this in the FAQ or something?

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lol, i never asked if i should fold this. i asked what hand we expected to see here.

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Exactly. I understood this when you first asked your question and I never indicated that you fold. For this to be a $60 STT, I put villain on a very good hand if he is able to re-reraise back into you despite two cold callers in the pot. even if he mini-raised you back instead of pushing, he has to think he can milk maximum value out of whatever hand he has (again, I'm thinking monster) if you just call to see the flop. Yes, there are bad players, but the way villain played this hand preflop, I don't see this guy being a sardine.