View Full Version : Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
TheNoodleMan
12-03-2005, 06:16 PM
I read a post today where someone described a hand as a bubble hand, and another poster replied that it wasn't a bubble hand because there were still 5 players left.
wiggs73
12-03-2005, 06:17 PM
a better question is why does it matter?
but i consider it to start at 5 players in a SNG.
chisness
12-03-2005, 06:18 PM
technically it's when 4 are left but when 4-6 are left and blinds are high i think it's usually called a bubble situation.
TheNoodleMan
12-03-2005, 06:23 PM
[ QUOTE ]
a better question is why does it matter?
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If clearing up misconceptions doesn't matter to you, then feel free to enjoy all of SFB's OT posts. /images/graemlins/blush.gif
FlyWf
12-03-2005, 06:29 PM
In poker terminology, a bubble is when the next person eliminated receives nothing but the 2nd person to be eliminated receives money. Finishing 5th is the same as finishing 4th.
TheNoodleMan
12-03-2005, 06:31 PM
Bubble play, not bubble. See the difference?
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Bubble play, not bubble. See the difference?
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You might play it like you were on the bubble, but it still wouldn't be a bubble hand.
splashpot
12-03-2005, 06:42 PM
Was I the one who said it wasn't a bubble hand? I think I remember that post. If I remember correctly, the OP in that post was trying to keep the 5-man "bubble" alive because he was a big stack. I was just pointing out that I didn't think it was a good idea because it wasn't actually the bubble yet.
TheNoodleMan
12-03-2005, 06:59 PM
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Was I the one who said it wasn't a bubble hand?
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No.
This (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4093002&an=0&page=0#Post 4093002) is the thread that got me thinking about it, but I really don't want to turn this into a discussion of that hand, so if you have anything to say about it, say it over there.
tigerite
12-03-2005, 07:04 PM
I think the definition of bubble as being 'the next one out is the last one to not get money' means bubble = 4 handed, and so 'bubble play' is 'play made on the bubble', but whatever.
splashpot
12-03-2005, 07:05 PM
Ahh, ok. This (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=singletable&Number=395466 6&Searchpage=1&Main=3954653&Words=%2Bfirst+%2Bbubb le+splashpot&topic=&Search=true#Post3954666) is the hand I was talking about. My memory was wrong. It has nothing to do with keeping the bubble alive. But I did get into an arguement about what is and what isn't bubble.
The OP in that thread makes an intersting point: even though there were five players left, if he won the pot he was in the money and if he lost he would have been out. That sounds like a bubble to me.
FlyWf
12-03-2005, 07:06 PM
Of course I don't see the difference. Bubble play would appear to be "play while on the bubble".
Anyway, in a typical 9 or 10 man SNG, the payouts are as follows:
4th: $0
5th: $0
See the difference?
tigerite
12-03-2005, 07:07 PM
Actually he would not, one of the blinds had him covered by about 200 chips.
tigerite
12-03-2005, 07:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Of course I don't see the difference. Bubble play would appear to be "play while on the bubble".
Anyway, in a typical 9 or 10 man SNG, the payouts are as follows:
4th: $0
5th: $0
See the difference?
[/ QUOTE ]
They are for 6th-10th as well, so should a 10 handed play be 'bubble play' too? It just makes things confusing, because you're expecting to see a post whereby losing the hand means you're out of the money, and winning it means in the money. If you start having 5-handed and 6-handed included, it makes a mockery of the whole thing; you won't be able to tell from a topic title what the OP is on about! That is why I don't like it.
TheNoodleMan
12-03-2005, 08:18 PM
I think you are missing the point.
The reason we all spend so much time on bubble play isn't because 4th place doesn't win any money. The reason we focus on bubble play is because other players tighten up and we can exploit them. Sometimes this shappens when there are more than 4 people left. If you don't take this into account because there are still 5 players, then you are making a mistake.
As for your sarcastic remark about making 10 handed bubble play, I contend that there is a theoretical situation in which it could happen. It is highly unlikely, but still possible.
bluefeet
12-03-2005, 08:28 PM
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I'm certain both sides are arguing semantics only. I doubt that those opposed to your definition are not accepting of the belief that the style of play put to use, in that-term-that-describes-the-one-from-the-money-situation would not also be found with 5, 6, possibly more remaining.
Short-handed/Big-blinds play? SHBB? EiPFM=Everyone in Push/fold Mode? Bubble? Meh...whatever
[/mediation]
Screw the technical definition, I'm fine about calling it bubble if it plays like the bubble. Bubble should be judged by the psychological influences nearing the money has on a players actions, and not if it's exactly 1 from the money.
zaphod
12-03-2005, 10:29 PM
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Screw the technical definition, I'm fine about calling it bubble if it plays like the bubble. Bubble should be judged by the psychological influences nearing the money has on a players actions, and not if it's exactly 1 from the money.
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I agree, two examples:
1) 4 players left:
A) 4000 chips
B) 2000 chips
C) 2000 chips
D) 2000 chips
blinds 15/30. Is this the bubble? No players are under big pressure to be blinded out.
2) 5 players left.
A) 5000 chips
B) 3000 chips
C) 1000 chips
D) 500 chips
E) 500 chips
Blinds: 150-300. Is this the bubble?
BradleyT
12-04-2005, 02:06 AM
#1 yes it's a bubble, the blinds don't have to be high for a bubble situation to occur.
#2 no it's not a bubble. A person can be eliminated and the remaining players aren't ITM.
Xenod
12-04-2005, 03:19 AM
In response to #1. Yes...yes it is the bubble. It's the very definition of bubble, the next person to get knocked out is the last one to not make money.
TheNoodleMan
12-04-2005, 04:20 AM
So are you guys actaully unwilling to make make bubble adjustments until there are only 4 players left or are you just blindly defending the definition?
Xenod
12-04-2005, 04:35 AM
Now you're arguing semantics. Of course you adjust. It's not adjusting to the bubble, it's just adjusting to being short-handed. You can be shorthanded without being on the bubble.
zaphod
12-05-2005, 04:38 PM
Technically yes, but still #2 feels more like the bubble than #1. In #2 the nr of hands before people gets ITM should on average be much smaller than in #1.
durron597
12-05-2005, 04:40 PM
The bubble is a psychological thing except in blatantly obvious chip situations. So if a guy really tightens up 5 handed, then it is the bubble for him.
Mathematically, 5 handed isn't the bubble the same way 4 handed is.
citanul
12-05-2005, 05:03 PM
Noodle,
The bubble "technically" is when there is one player remaining, I believe.
However, "the bubble" is when the mindset changes so that the gap gets crazy.
In, for example, a step 5, that starts when the game starts.
c
[ QUOTE ]
The bubble is a psychological thing except in blatantly obvious chip situations. So if a guy really tightens up 5 handed, then it is the bubble for him.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're supposed to play tighter on the button. Hmmm, I knew I was doing something wrong.
citanul
12-05-2005, 06:13 PM
[ QUOTE ]
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The bubble is a psychological thing except in blatantly obvious chip situations. So if a guy really tightens up 5 handed, then it is the bubble for him.
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You're supposed to play tighter on the button. Hmmm, I knew I was doing something wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]
huh?
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