Big pot blinding me?

[Spartan1983]

Just an average Pacific table. Little on the loose side, no maniacs.
Pacific $3/6 6 handed

Hero dealt 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif in BB

4 limpers, 1 fold, hero calls (5 SB's)

Flop: J /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/spade.gif
Hero checks, Utg bets, Utg+1 raises, Mp cold calls, Co calls, Hero calls, Utg calls (7.5 BB's)

Turn: A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Hero checks, Utg checks, Utg +1 bets, Mp calls, CO raises, Hero?

[jba]

I lead that flop

I don't understand the question on the turn, you can't fold this.

edit: the coldcallers make you nervous? you are getting great odds here, sometimes you are up against a bigger fd but not enough IMO

they can easily be calling with Q/J or straight draws

[milesdyson]

this is one of those flops where you debate checking or betting. i like checking. search for and read shant's thread on betting draws out of position. i like your check on this board for reasons discussed in the thread. if you bet, you may get raised by someone right after you. this flop is never getting checked through.

but then... you had 3 (maybe 4) people trapped on the flop with a flush draw? semi-taking into account the times someone has a larger draw and the times someone has a big /images/graemlins/spade.gif that will outdraw your turned flush, you should still 3-bet the flop for value.

you're getting 11.5:2 immediately, and even if UTG+1 3-bets, MP folds, and CO caps, you will bet getting 16.5:4. this is the worst case, and it is still a call.

[Spartan1983]

Thanks. I didn't fold, just wanted to make sure I wasn't being too influenced by the size of the pot. I was fearing a bigger flush if I did hit the river

[Spartan1983]

Thanks I'll look up the Shant thread. As I was typing the hand history I though to myself, "self, you should have raised the flop after all them callers".

Hi Spartan-

I had a similar question yesterday about killing baby flushes. If you saw it , it was pretty obvious I needed to call. Same in this situation, I'm looking at your hand and it's pretty obvious you need to call. When you're in the hand and you watch the river come out 3 to a flush and you lose to a higher one, yeah, it sucks. But even if that happens half the time (which it doesn't) you're still getting the correct odds to call the turn.

[Spartan1983]

thanks happydaz

Turn: A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Hero checks, Utg checks, Utg +1 bets, Mp calls, Co raises, Hero calls, Utg calls, Utg +1 calls, MP calls (17.5 BB's)

River: K /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Hero bets?

[jba]

yes bet it, call one raise

[Chairman Wood]

Flop: I think when its 2 back to you with all those people cc ing and trapped you should make it 3bets. UTG will be the only one who has to call two bets and he is somewhat likely to after showing some interest in the pot.
Turn: Don't even think about folding.
I saw the last card from the other posts. I think you should lead out. c/r CO shuts people out.

[Spartan1983]

Thanks chairman, use to play against you on Empire. I don't spend much time their now. (Magic1983)

River: K /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero bets, Utg raises, Utg+1 folds, MP 3bets(1st aggression he's shown in this hand, flush?), Co caps, all call (33.5 BB's)

[Chairman Wood]

That's a kick in the balls. Maybe they could all have str8's? /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Yes, you need to bet the river because you want 1 to 2 bets going in here. Problem is if you go for a check raise, either everyone will check and you'll get 0 bets, or you'll be succesful then someone will 3-bet and maybe someone else will cap and you'll have to call and cry when you get shown a higher flush.

Chairman, I think 3-betting the flop is very bad, as we're miles away from having a nut draw. We need at least the 3rd nut flush to do that and probably the 2nd nut before I'm comfortable.

By the way, yeah that river cap sucks but I think you need to call unless you have a solid read on one of those raisers. Even then, what if they're betting a worse flush? Stranger things have happened. And don't underestimate people's propensity to get insane with AA, or misclick or go on tilt or have their dog push the mouse for them. In other words: Don't ever fold in a 33 BB pot with a strong hand :-)

[Spartan1983]

Results:

Being Pacific the only hand I saw was Utg - KQ for 2 pair

MHIG /images/graemlins/smile.gif

thanks for all the replies.

[jba]

WOW. I definitely would have folded.

edit. i'm getting this confused with some other post with a paired board, maybe the abortion one....geez i would be swearing

[Spartan1983]

No paired board. Utg had KQ for a straight, not 2 pair. My mistake.