December Magazine Rating

[pipes]

I give it a 2. I think it may be generous. Flame me if you wish.

Sun Tzu article, useless reprint.

Teaching Poker Wife, I have nothing good to say, so I'll say nothing.

AC Article is terrible. Some of it is wrong...Taj bathrooms are very close. Most of it is not useful..."Taj spreads Stud 1-3 and up, uses antes not blinds" Very dry, uniformative, and at times incorrect and misleading.

Knowing the Odds Article. I can't believe this was included. Rule of 4, come on everyone should know this stuff.

Ray Zee's article is just a short uninteresting trip article that's only in there because Ray Zee wrote it.

I'll give On the Edge a pass, because they at least give us something to argue about.

This month's magazine should only have 3-4 articles.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
This month's magazine should only have 3-4 articles.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you rather only have 2-3 quality articles and nothing else, or a 10 article magazine with 2-3 quality articles, 3-4 medium quality, and 3-5 filler articles that may actually raise an eyebrow or two?

I'd choose the latter. Beggars cannot be choosers, I'm very happy with the magazine (although I do seem room for improvements, but I won't rant about it like I commonly see here).

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[pipes]

Personally I'd like the bar set higher. Getting your article on 2+2 should mean something. The criteria shouldn't be that you can type.

I'd like to see only quality articles. Maybe some months we have 2, maybe others we have 10.

The filler articles aren't raising eyebrows. They are taking up space. We aren't beggars, we are customers.

[me454555]

I agree, we need more stratagey/applicable articles and less filler

[flair1239]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree, we need more stratagey/applicable articles and less filler

[/ QUOTE ]

I was disappointed with this months Magazine. I even thought the Ed Miller 6-max article was very pedestrian. I would like to see more in depth strategy ideas.

I thought Mason's bunching article was interesting though.

[Ed Miller]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree, we need more stratagey/applicable articles and less filler

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the feedback. Having said that, we don't want to have nothing but strategy/"serious" articles. We want some humor and other articles to balance. You call them "filler" perhaps, but others enjoy them.

And we do emphasize strategy articles over "fluffier" articles. That is, we accept virtually all high-quality strategy articles, while we only accept a percentage of the less hardcore fare.

In other words, I'm not rejecting quality strategy articles in favor of other stuff. They get top priority. If you don't think there are enough quality strategy articles (I think there are), then it's because not enough are being submitted.

Sooooo, I encourage you to submit quality strategy articles.

[GrannyMae]

[ QUOTE ]
I give it a 2. I think it may be generous. Flame me if you wish.

Sun Tzu article, useless reprint.

Teaching Poker Wife, I have nothing good to say, so I'll say nothing.

AC Article is terrible. Some of it is wrong...Taj bathrooms are very close. Most of it is not useful..."Taj spreads Stud 1-3 and up, uses antes not blinds" Very dry, uniformative, and at times incorrect and misleading.

Knowing the Odds Article. I can't believe this was included. Rule of 4, come on everyone should know this stuff.

Ray Zee's article is just a short uninteresting trip article that's only in there because Ray Zee wrote it.

I'll give On the Edge a pass, because they at least give us something to argue about.

This month's magazine should only have 3-4 articles.

[/ QUOTE ]

we are overdue for a poll:

[me454555]

I think that humor articles are a key part of the magizine, just use them in moderation. I think there were 2 or 3 quality articles this time and 4 or 5 humors. If we had 4 or 5 stratagy and 2 or 3 humors, I'd be a lil happier w/the magazine.

I would love to write a stratagy article but I dont feel like I have much to add. Maybe if I get an interesting hand this month

[pipes]

I don't mind 'other' articles. But check out the feedback on articles such as the AC, Sun Tzu, and Poker Wife.

[BradleyT]

Was, Ray, Zee's, article, proof, read?

[BarronVangorToth]

[ QUOTE ]

I'll give On the Edge an A+, because it is phenomenal, as usual.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

In all seriousness, Ed's right, you don't want everything to be hardcore strategy.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[ QUOTE ]
Starting with this issue, the Two Plus Two Internet Magazine will feature no limit hold 'em more prominently. Come here to learn cutting-edge strategy and reasoning from top minds. No magazine will hone your no limit skills like this one.

[/ QUOTE ]
--Two Plus Two Internet Magazine, Vol. 1, No. 10



Can you point me to the article in this month's magazine where I can learn cutting-edge NL strategy? Is it the one that describes optimal strategy in a 3-handed game when everyone has only 6 big blinds? /images/graemlins/confused.gif Or maybe it's the one that shows how to calculate pot odds. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif No offense, but if your intention was to make the magazine a premier source of NL strategy, this month was a complete and utter failure.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Starting with this issue, the Two Plus Two Internet Magazine will feature no limit hold 'em more prominently. Come here to learn cutting-edge strategy and reasoning from top minds. No magazine will hone your no limit skills like this one.

[/ QUOTE ]
--Two Plus Two Internet Magazine, Vol. 1, No. 10



Can you point me to the article in this month's magazine where I can learn cutting-edge NL strategy? Is it the one that describes optimal strategy in a 3-handed game when everyone has only 6 big blinds? /images/graemlins/confused.gif Or maybe it's the one that shows how to calculate pot odds. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif No offense, but if your intention was to make the magazine a premier source of NL strategy, this month was a complete and utter failure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Edit: I personally didnt find any of the articles very interesting. Some of them because I'm not a big limit-player, and others just in general sucked. IDK, I thought some of the articles when the magazine first started out were great. I think its gone downhill since then.

I didn't pay a dime to join. I'm not a customer

[gergery]

If you're not happy with it, get off your ass and write an article yourself.

-g

[gergery]

I have to say i was a bit dissapointed in the magazine this month myself. But then, it was definitely worth more than i paid for it, now wasn't it. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

-g

[pipes]

I was fully intending to submit some articles myself.
But with any old article getting in, the challenge and/or excitement is no longer there.

The December Magazine is a joke.

[pipes]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't pay a dime to join. I'm not a customer

[/ QUOTE ]

Ever buy a 2+2 book? Ever read/post on this site in which advertisers pay to have banners?

You are a customer.

[Ed Miller]

[ QUOTE ]
I was fully intending to submit some articles myself.
But with any old article getting in, the challenge and/or excitement is no longer there.

The December Magazine is a joke.

[/ QUOTE ]

I want you guys to know that I take your criticisms seriously.

The magazine is not really a big profitmaker. It costs a couple thousand bucks a month to do, and it generates a couple thousand in revenue.

The main reason why we do it is because we think it adds value for our forum members, and it offers an opportunity for community members to get involved and write on a more formal basis than just posting. I hope this doesn't sound like corporatebabble (it's definitely not)... we do the magazine mostly for the benefit of the members of this site. At least right now, it works as a "for the members, by the members" type of thing.

We could run the magazine differently. Instead of making it "for the members, by the members," we could bring in outside writers. We could hire regular writers, a la a lot of other magazines, and have more control over the content. That's not how we envisioned it, and ultimately we may not be interested in doing a magazine like that, but if that's how you think it should be, please let us know.

If we keep it the way it is, though, then the magazine is only as good as the articles that you guys submit to us. I write an article each month, and I try to do my best, but sometimes it doesn't turn out that interesting. And I write only one article... most of the magazine consists of submissions. I can't publish something that wasn't submitted.

Honestly, the best way to improve the magazine is to submit articles. If your stuff is high quality, we will surely accept it. We will pay you $200 per article, and after three months, we return the articles to you, and you are free to shop them to whatever other poker publication you can find.

I think the magazine is good... I think the content is, on average, the best available from any magazine on poker. But I agree that it has some room for improvement. But we need your help as writers to make that happen.

[flair1239]

[ QUOTE ]
But we need your help as writers to make that happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ed,

This is where I disagree. If I want to know what my fellow posters are saying, I can just search them in the appropriate forum. Many of the articles have been good, but many are very simaliar to content in the existing forums.

When I first heard about this magazine I was excited, because I thought it would elicit strategy articles from David, Mason, Ray Zee, Al Schoonmaker, and yourself that are lacking on the existing strategy forums. To a certain extent that has happened, but I felt that this months effort really fell short.

In other words, I am more interested in what the 2+2 authors have say, rather than the 2+2 posters.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
In other words, I am more interested in what the 2+2 authors have say, rather than the 2+2 posters.

[/ QUOTE ]

I too would love to see more strategy articles by 2+2 authors, even if they are about forms of poker I don't play. In my case all I play is PLO and NL. But I do read some of the other strategy forums sporadically, because I am interested in poker theory in general and because in the future either through desire or necessity I might start playing some other forms.

But I think that an implicit premise in the magazine's plan to rely primarily on regular posters, is to demonstrate that 100s of posters here who are not professional poker writers, are capable of putting out better quality articles over time than 90% of such similar articles in paid publications that frequently contain mathematically and strategically flawed advice or are total fluff pieces.

But a big factor is that some of the very best posters simply aren't willing to share certain advice. In a thread a few months ago I explained why I am unwilling to do so in some matters in plo, though I post regularly in that forum, and even though plo now only makes up about 35% of my playing time. I think it is the same for most posters who regularly play high limits in any form. $200 or even $2000 just isn't an incentive to write something that might only add just a little to the strategy arsenal of one's regular opponents, but which actually could decrease one's edge with such opponents significantly. I believe that this is particularly true regarding deep stack big bet games in B&M venues and also online where even in a max buyin game you often acquire a deep stack and play it against other such deep stacks.

And I guarantee that there are regular posters in all strategy forums whose articles you would want to read if they actually were willing to participate. Online poker has created a huge pool of very talented players in a short time who never grew up playing in smoky backrooms of pool halls and bars and home games like some of us. Their live play is limited to nice and and mostly clean and smoke-free card rooms. Lots of these players will prove to only be flashes in the pan who vanish suddenly to be replaced by 10 more n00bs. But lots of these players have unconventional approaches to various forms of poker derived through online play only. While these approaches might contain the seeds of their downfall, a selective use of such play could add greatly to a player's repetoire.

Regarding non-strategy specific articles, I think there is a great demand from reading forums, for artcles and advice on building and maintaining a bankroll and how to take occasional "shots" while not hurting your bankroll, and stories about legendary players of the past and about legendary online players and how they got started and where they are at now. The book Aces and Kings by Kaplan and Reagan contained lots of these types of stories and I enjoyed reading it a lot, and wished that there had been more regarding online-only players.

A key point though is that simply no matter how good many articles are, if they don't apply to forms of poker certain players play, then those players aren't going to like them. I for example don't like and rarely play tourneys except for something different to do when I don't feel like playing my normal games, but I would not criticize the inclusion of such articles. I do agree however that certain non-strategy articles in this and other months' magazines have been somewhat lite in their subject because they were only stories about that poster's experiences and not regarding a player who many would find interesting.

The bottom line too, is that regarding strategy, besides the 2+2 authors, the number of professional poker writers who write regularly for other publications and whose advice can be trusted, is in IMO less than 10. But that is the same pool that all the paid magazines use, in addition to the ones whose advice often is in error. But the potential pool of writers who could provide such good advice and are regular or occasional posters in these forums is much greater, even if a small percentage of the overall number of posters.

[BarronVangorToth]

[ QUOTE ]
$200 or even $2000 just isn't an incentive to write something

[/ QUOTE ]


While I realize I make a lot of joking posts and randomly like to argue with people for no reason other than to amuse myself, with 100% sincerity, I'd like to state that I don't think the money should be the reason why I -- or any of us -- write an article for 2+2's magazine.

It's because we owe.

That was my sole reason for developing the "On the Edge" series where I'd highlight concepts from 2+2 books that I didn't think were given as much attention as other teachings.

Think about how much money you've made from poker.

Think about how much you would've made if Mason, David, Ed, and the rest of the 2+2 authors didn't bother to write what they have written.

Sure, we all paid our $20+ for their books and they've never asked for more than that, but with all of us only spending hundreds on them, they have, in turn, made many of us tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars.

While I realize quite a few have made quite a bit more than me from 2+2, I still believe I owe them.

Which is the reason I spent hours and hours on every "On the Edge" -- I appreciate the $200, but it's not my motivation.

It's about (hopefully) giving something back to people that have blessed my life so I can in turn take better care of my family.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[ QUOTE ]
Honestly, the best way to improve the magazine is to submit articles. If your stuff is high quality, we will surely accept it. We will pay you $200 per article, and after three months, we return the articles to you, and you are free to shop them to whatever other poker publication you can find.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is the best news I've heard since I started reading posts here on 2 plus 2. How do we go about submitting our articles? I have tons of great stuff I've been writing down in copybooks, on loose sheets of paper, etc. since I started playing as I was developing as a player. It's mostly Limit HE Strategy, but I also have/feel qualified to give advice on proper bankroll management/requirements, game selection, and other various associated topics...

I doubt anything I write will be of a lot of benefit to advanced/expert players with 5 years or more winning playing experience, but I definitely feel I can help out lesser experienced players and would submit an article for consideration for FREE! I can't believe you guys actually pay any random 2 + 2er who submits an article you end up putting in the mag.
This is IMO one of the best (if not THE best) benefits of being a 2 + 2er...

I am going to start drafting articles from my copybooks of strategy info.
Just let me know the procedure/where to send them...If we submit a great article that gets put in the mag., is it "ours"/copyrighted?
Or do you guys own it at that point?

Thanks, Joe M.

[BarronVangorToth]

Submission Guidelines (http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/current/contributions.html)

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[chucksim]

I was quite disappointed in the AC article as well. As was stated, some info was out and out wrong, and the author didn't even know some of the proper terminology.

"Range Games"???? How come an editor didn't catch that and replace it with "Spread Limit"? In a post that's one thing, but I'd expect the "Magazine" should be edited/fact-checked a bit before publishing.

It is a good effort, but I'm with another poster who said that having something on 2+2 should mean something, quality-wise. If I see stuff like that in an article, I'm going to we wary of the rest of the info as well.

[KowCiller]

I, like most, prefer the poker content of the magazine but as long as the "humor" content is left out of the 2+2 books (especially the highly anticipated NL theory book) then I'll still be a happy 2+2 customer.

KoW