$33: Weak top pair out ot BB, lead or follow?

[ReDeYES88]

Haven't played in a couple of months, trying to get back in the swing of things.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

UTG+2 (t835)
MP1 (t630)
MP2 (t490)
MP3 (t755)
CO (t925)
Button (t960)
SB (t1015)
Hero (t1110)
UTG (t570)
UTG+1 (t710)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls t30, MP2 calls t30, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls t30, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t150) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t30</font>, SB calls t30, Hero calls t30, MP1 folds, MP2 calls t30.


Would you bet the weak top pair OOP 4 handed with a rag draw board, or continue a passive line? Lead 3/4 pot? Would probably make one or two players drop, but someone calling wouldn't necessarily let me know where I stand at the risk of building a big pot early.

Turn: (t270) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t300</font>, MP2 folds, Button calls t300, SB folds.

So, for some reason I decide to change strategy mid-hand and take the lead. Probably bet too much, but I wanted to take it down here. My thoughs were that a flopped set would have probably bet the flop, and I wanted to make a flush draw pay a price and try to push out overcards. I suppose t225 or so would have done the same thing, no? Would you take the lead here or not?

River: (t870) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero ?</font>

So now I've built a big pot (out of the BB with a marginal hand, nontheless...aack), taken the betting lead with an opponent that is representing a classic flush draw that caught up, and there's little about my previous actions that would suggest that I hit a flush and could rep it.

What's your line?

check and see if he bets and go from there?
blocking bet?
lead the river?

all comments welcome.

[BriPlay]

for me this flop is protect or fold..since there was no strength at all PF..i'd try and protect it. I'd probably bet out the pot as a lead..3/4 is ok..I'd prob bet the pot.

but since you checked and Button bet (WEEEEAK min bet), a check raise is in order (I'd make it 200 probably). Calling here is weak IMO..since you have no decent draw, and your opponent may.

If called, lead turn again. If reraised you can safely fold to what i suspect is a slowplayed overpair, or maybe a set.

just one man's opinion

Brian

[bluefeet]

[ QUOTE ]

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but since you checked and Button bet (WEEEEAK min bet), a check raise is in order (I'd make it 200 probably). Calling here is weak IMO..since you have no decent draw, and your opponent may.

If called, lead turn again. If reraised you can safely fold to what i suspect is a slowplayed overpair, or maybe a set.


[/ QUOTE ]

I like this part. Leading the flop, not so much. OP wouldn't be getting 4 folds. He probably will see a 2,6,7,9,T,J,Q,K, or any other spade not covered previously.

Check raise for sure this weak button lead.

[BriPlay]

So I guess you're kinda saying that you can't really protect this hand wo a check raise..that may be true..I guess I was thinking that I would be suprised (if I checked) to have someone bet this hand, therefore it would be likely to be checked around..and if an overcard comes on turn..I have no idea where i am (so im check folding i guess)
brian

[bluefeet]

[ QUOTE ]
So I guess you're kinda saying that you can't really protect this hand wo a check raise

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm saying that leading into a 5-way, you can't realistically protect the hand - period.

The check raise opportunity was one brought about by this specific pattern of check/betting. I wouldn't even propose c-r'ing a limp+2/3 callers. The fact that it was just weak-button, non-c-r'ing SB, made it an ideal situation to take it down here.

One of those TPTK hands that you really shouldn't have an overly eager desire to (or belief you will/can) take down.

[BriPlay]

OK, Thanks..good to think about cause these situations come up a LOT

Brian

I'd overbet the flop to 300.

[ReDeYES88]

bluefeet,

I can see your point about a flop c/r considering the action, although I have found that flush drawers are a little more likely to fold to a bet on the turn with only one more to come than on the flop, even to a c/r, which is why I felt ok in giving another card.

I think the bet size for a c/r on the flop would need to be somewhere around what I bet on the turn, and by waiting until the turn, you can somewhat leverage the fact that there's only one more card to come, as well as not build a huge pot right off the bat with a weak TPTK OOP. Basically, I think those that chase flush draws are more likely to call that bet on the flop than on the turn.

Getting back to the original question and considering the situation at hand: You've taken the lead in the hand on the turn, have a pretty sizeable chunk of your stack in the middle, the third flush card just hit after classic flush draw action, and it's your move. What's your line?