10/20 KQ [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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jason_t

12-03-2005, 09:55 AM

UTG is 30/5/1.75 and MP1 is unknown.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (9 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter (http://www.pokerhand.org)

Preflop: I am MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, I raise, 5 folds, UTG 3-bets, MP1 calls, I call.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG bets, MP1 calls, I call.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 checks, I check.

newhizzle

12-03-2005, 10:07 AM

i dont really see him screwplaying the turn with an overpair or LRRing AQ, he probably has exactly AK or some suited crap, id bet, hell call

thejameser

12-03-2005, 10:21 AM

LRR usually means a really strong hand, or some crap hand(suited connector maybe, etc). either way you are only giving a freebie to one overcard. since there are fewer overs to hurt you, this is not so big of a gamble. i think this is a clear slowplay situation. the relative value of your hand will remain the same unless you catch one of your few outs and if you started with the best/worst hand you will probably finish with the best/worst hand. UTG could be scared after the flop because he had two callers, or he could be trying a c/r. this gets you to showdown fairly cheaply, and you may induce a bluff. if a rag falls and UTG bets, MP1 calls, are you overcalling?

bernie

12-03-2005, 10:33 AM

Bet the turn. Even though it's only 3 handed, you have a possible openended/gutshot now turned flush draw possible on the board. Not a good street or board to let it go for free.

b

gaming_mouse

12-03-2005, 11:13 AM

I don't mind this, mainly because of his PFR stat.

thejameser

12-03-2005, 11:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind this, mainly because of his PFR stat.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree.

Justin A

12-03-2005, 07:12 PM

You have to bet here. There is no reason to believe UTG is going to checkraise, and you have entirely too much value with two opponents. HU I could see checking, but 3 ways this is an easy bet.

CardSharpCook

12-03-2005, 07:22 PM

I get shown donk hands here a lot. A4o, AQs, KK, T9s, are all hands I've seen limp/raised. AA about 25% of the time.

12-05-2005, 12:23 AM

I give you about a 50/50 chance of being ahead here.... so I would often raise this flop to punish the middle caller the times I'm ahead.

PokerBob

12-05-2005, 01:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
UTG is 30/5/1.75 and MP1 is unknown.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (9 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter (http://www.pokerhand.org)

Preflop: I am MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, I raise, 5 folds, UTG 3-bets, MP1 calls, I call.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG bets, MP1 calls, I call.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 checks, I check.

[/ QUOTE ]

i like a bet. if UTG raises, i think you are cooked and can safely let it go. giving a retard who limp rr's AK a free card is no good.

tpir90036

12-05-2005, 01:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i like a bet. if UTG raises, i think you are cooked and can safely let it go.

[/ QUOTE ]
if we get check-raised we will be getting almost 10:1 to call. i think we will need to see the river either way.

jason_t

12-05-2005, 01:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]

i like a bet. if UTG raises, i think you are cooked and can safely let it go. giving a retard who limp rr's AK a free card is no good.

[/ QUOTE ]

AK not suited in /images/graemlins/spade.gifs has three outs against.

PokerBob

12-05-2005, 01:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

i like a bet. if UTG raises, i think you are cooked and can safely let it go. giving a retard who limp rr's AK a free card is no good.

[/ QUOTE ]

AK not suited in /images/graemlins/spade.gifs has three outs against.

[/ QUOTE ]

true, but why let him get there for free?

jason_t

12-05-2005, 01:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

i like a bet. if UTG raises, i think you are cooked and can safely let it go. giving a retard who limp rr's AK a free card is no good.

[/ QUOTE ]

AK not suited in /images/graemlins/spade.gifs has three outs against.

[/ QUOTE ]

true, but why let him get there for free?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a weighted decision; there is more than just AK to think about here.

sfer

12-05-2005, 01:48 AM

If I have any suspicion of a donk/re-donk I cap preflop. And I usually spray the flop for the same reason.

Chris Daddy Cool

12-05-2005, 05:03 AM

bet the turn jason. it does the body good.

Klepton

12-05-2005, 07:26 AM

jason,

weak.

carlo

ResidentParanoid

12-05-2005, 11:42 AM

I don't like this at all. You obviously fear hands AQ, AA, KK, QQ. The guy isn't raising much more than these based on his stats.

Raise the flop. If you are re-raised, fold. If your flop raise is just called, and checked-to on the turn, then bet it out. If he bets into you on the turn after your flop raise, then I would consider folding. If you are check-raised on the turn, then fold.

If you like your hand, then play it. If not, then get some info and get away from it if needed.

ErrantNight

12-05-2005, 11:56 AM

i'm not sure i agree there are so few outs against you that it's better to let them draw for free than it is to charge them now.

i wouldn't be terribly worried about a turn c/r, frankly.

i think too frequently you won't get enough action on the river when you're still ahead compared to the bets you're sacrificing by checking this turn.

IndieMatty

12-05-2005, 11:58 AM

Simple(ish) play is the best, raise the flop.

ErrantNight

12-05-2005, 11:58 AM

also, this guy sucks. one recurring attribute of players that suck is that they call too much (i nominate this sentence for most unnecessary ever). he raised, he autobet the flop. now he'll call drawing thin a lot of the time.

ErrantNight

12-05-2005, 11:59 AM

how is he going to accomplish that?

IndieMatty

12-05-2005, 12:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
how is he going to accomplish that?

[/ QUOTE ]

I misstyped.

danzasmack

12-05-2005, 12:14 PM

One thing I have been trying to include in my reads are whether or not the player c/r's a lot. There are some players that see AA, get excited and play it the same way this guy played his hand, waiting to c/r.

While his pfr stat is small, his AF seems rather high for someone who will play AA this passively.

I like raising the flop here. If you know you are calling, pay 1 more SB and get more information from him. If he is a straightforwar player he may just 3-bet here (or call for that matter) and we can re-evaluate on the turn.

If he is a tricky player, i still like a flop raise then possibly check behind on the turn if you feel you can not fold to a c/r. Even more so with all the "screwplay" posts I keep reading. It's cooler than the trifecta now.

I find myself almost always raising top pair on the flop now mainly because I get more information for less small bets. Learning to fold the turn/river is what will get me to 3BB/100.

B Dids

12-05-2005, 12:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You have to bet here. There is no reason to believe UTG is going to checkraise, and you have entirely too much value with two opponents. HU I could see checking, but 3 ways this is an easy bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say a preflop limp RR is a good enough reason to think he might c/r.

I think bet/folding the turn would be best.