3 big fishes swimming in the $200 fish bowl ... (low content)

[joewatch]

As long as this keeps happening, I will play PLO...

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $2 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO ($236)
Button ($111.25)
SB ($179.25)
BB ($160)
UTG ($352.70)
UTG+1 ($142)
Hero ($200)
MP2 ($266.40)
MP3 ($200)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls $2, UTG+1 calls $2, Hero calls $2, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $10</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises to $18</font>, CO calls $18, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls $17, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $16, UTG+1 calls $16, Hero folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $36</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises to $184</font>, CO calls $166, SB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls $148.

Flop: ($610) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets $16 (All-In)</font>, CO calls $16, MP2 calls $16.

Turn: ($658) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
MP2 checks, CO checks.

River: ($658) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
MP2 checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: $658

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
MP2 has Kd As 3s Qs (one pair, tens).
MP3 has 4s Qc 9s 6c (two pair, tens and fours).
CO has 7h 9c 5s 5h (two pair, tens and fives).
Outcome: CO wins $658.

pokenum -o kd as 3s qs - 4s qc 9s 6c - 7h 9c 5s 5h - ah qh jh js
Omaha Hi: 376992 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Qs 3s Kd 76496 20.29 288683 76.58 11813 3.13 0.219
9s 4s Qc 6c 83169 22.06 289971 76.92 3852 1.02 0.226
5s 9c 7h 5h 87657 23.25 285483 75.73 3852 1.02 0.238
Js Ah Qh Jh 114005 30.24 251174 66.63 11813 3.13 0.318

I folded the best hand! LOL
</font>

[Unabridged]

jesus, maybe i should move to pokerstars

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
CO ($236)
Button ($111.25)
SB ($179.25)
BB ($160)
UTG ($352.70)
UTG+1 ($142)
Hero ($200)
MP2 ($266.40)
MP3 ($200)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J, J, Q, A.
UTG calls $2, UTG+1 calls $2, Hero calls $2, MP2 raises to $10, MP3 raises to $18, CO calls $18, 1 fold, SB calls $17, 1 fold, UTG calls $16, UTG+1 calls $16

Hero folds,

[/ QUOTE ]

Gross.

[BluffTHIS!]

Dang, here's something I agree with aces about. It is gross indeed that hero would not call less than 10% of his stack with AQQJ. This is the epitome of weak-tightness. Now I don't think he should have then made a subsequent call of another reraise for his whole stack as would have been necessary in the hand to see the flop, but failing to make that first call is an error. I would even call 20% of my stack preflop with it, and if a player is not willing to, then he can never be a big winner in plo.

[Unabridged]

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Dang, here's something I agree with aces about. It is gross indeed that hero would not call less than 10% of his stack with AQQJ. This is the epitome of weak-tightness. Now I don't think he should have then made a subsequent call of another reraise for his whole stack as would have been necessary in the hand to see the flop, but failing to make that first call is an error. I would even call 20% of my stack preflop with it, and if a player is not willing to, then he can never be a big winner in plo.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd call the $16, but it looks like MP2 and MP3 were having a dick measuring contest and if he had an idea they would reraise like that i'd fold too

[Cooker]

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Dang, here's something I agree with aces about. It is gross indeed that hero would not call less than 10% of his stack with AQQJ. This is the epitome of weak-tightness. Now I don't think he should have then made a subsequent call of another reraise for his whole stack as would have been necessary in the hand to see the flop, but failing to make that first call is an error. I would even call 20% of my stack preflop with it, and if a player is not willing to, then he can never be a big winner in plo.

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i'd call the $16, but it looks like MP2 and MP3 were having a dick measuring contest and if he had an idea they would reraise like that i'd fold too

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But if he knew they would be raising then he should know they are both maniacs and call the reraise and the all in. He either knows they are maniacs and should call the $16 or he doesn't know and he should call the $16. I guess if he knows the first is a maniac and thinks the second player is solid and would only reraise with a big hand then he should maybe fold figuring this would be an all in preflop situation. You may say this is not a hand you want to gamble with 3 way, but I think that is nonsense. This is a cash game not a tournament. If you sit at a game you should have the bankroll to make the +EV plays when they come up. Getting all in preflop with a very nice hand like this multiway when the other players are known maniacs or morons is going to be the better play than limp folding by far. If he couldn't stand action, then why limp in front of 2 maniacs (neither have particularly strong hands so I figure their maniacs nature must have been known before this hand came up).

[joewatch]

Once in a while, even maniacs show up with aces.

[Unabridged]

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Dang, here's something I agree with aces about. It is gross indeed that hero would not call less than 10% of his stack with AQQJ. This is the epitome of weak-tightness. Now I don't think he should have then made a subsequent call of another reraise for his whole stack as would have been necessary in the hand to see the flop, but failing to make that first call is an error. I would even call 20% of my stack preflop with it, and if a player is not willing to, then he can never be a big winner in plo.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd call the $16, but it looks like MP2 and MP3 were having a dick measuring contest and if he had an idea they would reraise like that i'd fold too

[/ QUOTE ]

But if he knew they would be raising then he should know they are both maniacs and call the reraise and the all in. He either knows they are maniacs and should call the $16 or he doesn't know and he should call the $16. I guess if he knows the first is a maniac and thinks the second player is solid and would only reraise with a big hand then he should maybe fold figuring this would be an all in preflop situation. You may say this is not a hand you want to gamble with 3 way, but I think that is nonsense. This is a cash game not a tournament. If you sit at a game you should have the bankroll to make the +EV plays when they come up. Getting all in preflop with a very nice hand like this multiway when the other players are known maniacs or morons is going to be the better play than limp folding by far. If he couldn't stand action, then why limp in front of 2 maniacs (neither have particularly strong hands so I figure their maniacs nature must have been known before this hand came up).

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i think with the way the action is going you can assume at least one player has a pair bigger than JJ and another player has an A. against that you are a dog 3way and just about even 4way

[BluffTHIS!]

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Once in a while, even maniacs show up with aces.

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Joe, even with maniacs to act behind you, that hand you had was a premo and there is simply no excuse for not calling the $16, although like I said I would then fold to another reraise rather than shove my stack even getting 2-1 or more on my money. But that hand can make top set, a nut straight and a nut flush (even with 3 hearts in your hand), which is the exact type of hand you can double or triple up off those kinds of players when you get to see the flop. If I played at the levels you do and knew you played that weak-tight, I would insure you never saw a flop when I had position on you and you didn't have AA/KK.

And regarding maniacs showing up occasionally with AA, they are in fact more likely in any such situation to be overplaying something like AQT8ds, and would blow their stack to you in an instant with top pair only in a raised pot when you flop a set or a monster draw.

[Cooker]

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Dang, here's something I agree with aces about. It is gross indeed that hero would not call less than 10% of his stack with AQQJ. This is the epitome of weak-tightness. Now I don't think he should have then made a subsequent call of another reraise for his whole stack as would have been necessary in the hand to see the flop, but failing to make that first call is an error. I would even call 20% of my stack preflop with it, and if a player is not willing to, then he can never be a big winner in plo.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd call the $16, but it looks like MP2 and MP3 were having a dick measuring contest and if he had an idea they would reraise like that i'd fold too

[/ QUOTE ]

But if he knew they would be raising then he should know they are both maniacs and call the reraise and the all in. He either knows they are maniacs and should call the $16 or he doesn't know and he should call the $16. I guess if he knows the first is a maniac and thinks the second player is solid and would only reraise with a big hand then he should maybe fold figuring this would be an all in preflop situation. You may say this is not a hand you want to gamble with 3 way, but I think that is nonsense. This is a cash game not a tournament. If you sit at a game you should have the bankroll to make the +EV plays when they come up. Getting all in preflop with a very nice hand like this multiway when the other players are known maniacs or morons is going to be the better play than limp folding by far. If he couldn't stand action, then why limp in front of 2 maniacs (neither have particularly strong hands so I figure their maniacs nature must have been known before this hand came up).

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i think with the way the action is going you can assume at least one player has a pair bigger than JJ and another player has an A. against that you are a dog 3way and just about even 4way

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Where did you get your numbers? Some of the worse (albeit none of the ones where you are totally crippled) combinations I checked 3 way has you down at most 2% (at a 31% winner) in equity and often you where the favorite (against KK and QQ totally dry you are 41% to win and have the most equity). However, look at the hands they showed up with. These players range of hands is much broader than bigger pairs if they show up even once with this type of trash. They must have been total maniacs, and against the range of hands they are likely to have I would gladly play AQJJ with 3 to a suit for all my money.

[BluffTHIS!]

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They must have been total maniacs, and against the range of hands they are likely to have I would gladly play AQJJ with 3 to a suit for all my money.

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Despite saying above that Joe should have called the first raise, it is not correct to go allin with that type of non-AA/KK pair hand unless maybe headsup against a total lag and you didn't have more than your initial buyin. It would even be correct to fold KK if you strongly suspected AA. Because like Joe said, they do show up with AA or KK occasionally. If you want to gamble in that situation, then a better hand is any 4 in a row straight hand with at least one suit or maybe a 2 pair hand with at least one suit where the 2 pairs were nearby and could make a straight.

[Cooker]

I agree that in general you would not want to get all in with this hand, but given the hands that are shown down, I wouldn't mind getting all in with these 3 clowns in a similar situation with a similar hand. If I knew they are as wild as this hand suggests then I wouldn't mind calling the all in either, but I could see folding to the reraise. The point I was trying to make is that there is only one situation where I would fold to the raise that comes back to OP the first time and that would be if the orginial raiser was a maniac that was sure to move in and the reraiser would only reraise a very strong AA type hand.

[Unabridged]

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Dang, here's something I agree with aces about. It is gross indeed that hero would not call less than 10% of his stack with AQQJ. This is the epitome of weak-tightness. Now I don't think he should have then made a subsequent call of another reraise for his whole stack as would have been necessary in the hand to see the flop, but failing to make that first call is an error. I would even call 20% of my stack preflop with it, and if a player is not willing to, then he can never be a big winner in plo.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd call the $16, but it looks like MP2 and MP3 were having a dick measuring contest and if he had an idea they would reraise like that i'd fold too

[/ QUOTE ]

But if he knew they would be raising then he should know they are both maniacs and call the reraise and the all in. He either knows they are maniacs and should call the $16 or he doesn't know and he should call the $16. I guess if he knows the first is a maniac and thinks the second player is solid and would only reraise with a big hand then he should maybe fold figuring this would be an all in preflop situation. You may say this is not a hand you want to gamble with 3 way, but I think that is nonsense. This is a cash game not a tournament. If you sit at a game you should have the bankroll to make the +EV plays when they come up. Getting all in preflop with a very nice hand like this multiway when the other players are known maniacs or morons is going to be the better play than limp folding by far. If he couldn't stand action, then why limp in front of 2 maniacs (neither have particularly strong hands so I figure their maniacs nature must have been known before this hand came up).

[/ QUOTE ]

i think with the way the action is going you can assume at least one player has a pair bigger than JJ and another player has an A. against that you are a dog 3way and just about even 4way

[/ QUOTE ]

Where did you get your numbers? Some of the worse (albeit none of the ones where you are totally crippled) combinations I checked 3 way has you down at most 2% (at a 31% winner) in equity and often you where the favorite (against KK and QQ totally dry you are 41% to win and have the most equity). However, look at the hands they showed up with. These players range of hands is much broader than bigger pairs if they show up even once with this type of trash. They must have been total maniacs, and against the range of hands they are likely to have I would gladly play AQJJ with 3 to a suit for all my money.

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i should probably clarify what i mean by dog, i would say ~%29 3-way and you are behind the random Axxx hand

poker calculator. i put his hand vs Axxx vs KK/QQxx (vs xxxx for the 4way) x denotes random card

sure this time they all had trash, but i'd say &gt;90% of the time someone has AA, KK, or QQ. and i'm just talking about at $25. i figure $200 is tighter

[Cooker]

I may have to check that program out. I usually just try a few sample combinations in 2dimes. Thanks for the info.

[Unabridged]

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I may have to check that program out. I usually just try a few sample combinations in 2dimes. Thanks for the info.

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http://www.pokercalculator.com/
i sent a comment to them asking them to add the ability to have hand ranges for omaha, maybe if you and a few others send similar ones they will add it

[Tilt]

I don't think folding is as terrible as everyone is making it out to be. Its a pretty high var strategy to be playing with 3 maniacs at a time, shoving lots of chips in preflop on most hands. Its profitable, but volatile, and puts you into frequent difficult marginal situations that might not suit your play or experience. But I agree that if you are not calling (or even reraising) there you should leave the table.