multi-way big draw, little fold equity

[teamdonkey]

0.50/1 6 max, 6 handed

UTG ($114.05)
CO ($130.27)
Hero ($276.48)
BB ($23.52)

Dealt to hero on the button - 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

UTG raises to 3, 1 fold, CO calls, hero calls, 1 fold, BB calls

Flop ($12.50) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif

UTG bets 5, CO min raises to 10, hero... ?

UTG is 42/3/1, i'm fairly sure he's got a good overpair. CO is 46/10/3.

I have no problem shoveling money in here, but without a lot of fold equity i'm not sure if calling is better.

[Isura]

I fold preflop. 43s is pretty useless as this flop illustrates. Even if you have a draw it is often not the best draw. I doubt you have much FE. Maybe call and play carefully if you hit. I don't mind a flop fold either.

[teamdonkey]

how is 34s any different than any other non-broadway suited connector? If this isn't the ideal situation to play suited connectors, i'm not sure what is. On the button for 3% of effective stacks and the CO tagging along, i fold this preflop absolutely never.

[Bukem_]

Preflop is fine.

SO is calling the flop. Get em both to come along, FE is low, these guys will pay you iff you hit.

And no way in hell am I ever folding this flop. Was that a joke?

[DJ Sensei]

I disagree... A flop like this is exactly why you play 43s. You have the potential to win a very big pot here.

I'm not sure whether I like to play this aggressively or passively on the flop. I'd probably lean towards aggressively, to try and chase off any higher flush draws and greatly increase your pot equity. Against an overpair, you're in good enough shape to get this all-in on the flop. Against an overpair and a better flush draw, you're pretty well screwed.

Additionally, the argument for passive play is weakened by the fact that if the big overpair is KK or QQ, and an A comes off to make your straight, you won't be able to get paid off as well as if the 6 comes, so the implied odds arent as strong.

[teamdonkey]

i thought this hand was interesting, suprised there weren't more comments. Anyway the flop action continues...

Flop ($12.50) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif

BB checks, UTG bets 5, CO min raises to 10, hero... calls, BB folds, UTG raises to 35, CO folds, hero... ?

situation has changed somewhat. it's no longer multiway and UTG holding a big pair is more likely. Still don't think i have much folding equity, but since i'm slightly ahead of overpairs here i don't care that much.

Better to call or push?

[Bukem_]

Push. Unless you are postive he will bet small/check the turn, and pay you off if you hit. But I doubt that is the case.

[xorbie]

Calling is bad if it prevents you from getting paid off.

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]

BB checks, UTG bets 5, CO min raises to 10, hero... calls, BB folds, UTG raises to 35, CO folds, hero... ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Push! Weeee!

[Bukem_]

[ QUOTE ]
Calling is bad if it prevents you from getting paid off.

[/ QUOTE ]

I said that.

I only mentioned calling as a very slight possibility since you have zero FE.

[FreakDaddy]

Not sure why you think UTG has an over pair, you didn't really provide any reasoning. Looks like to me he missed the flop and I'd be more worried about a bigger draw then an over pair. If one of these guys has an over pair your ~53% to win. If UTG is on a bigger flush draw, like AQ, or AK of diamonds, then you're not looking good.

It would also really suck if CO has a set, but given the action, both flop bets are pretty donkish. I think given stack sizes, and the fact it's really hard to tell what these guys have here I'd prefer a raise to $40 on the flop and see how they react. Most of the time I'd prefer a push, but the action is just too wierd.

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]
i thought this hand was interesting, suprised there weren't more comments. Anyway the flop action continues...

Flop ($12.50) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif

BB checks, UTG bets 5, CO min raises to 10, hero... calls, BB folds, UTG raises to 35, CO folds, hero... ?

situation has changed somewhat. it's no longer multiway and UTG holding a big pair is more likely. Still don't think i have much folding equity, but since i'm slightly ahead of overpairs here i don't care that much.

Better to call or push?

[/ QUOTE ]

push. If you're read is correct, then you're getting it in with the best of it. What more do you want? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[teamdonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
push. If you're read is correct, then you're getting it in with the best of it. What more do you want?

[/ QUOTE ]

obviously i want to win the most when i hit and lose the least when i don't /images/graemlins/grin.gif. I think everyone is right, i should have pushed the second time around on the flop. I didn't, but the story had a happy ending anyway.