3-betting HU from the BB

[kurosh]

I'm wondering what hands and in what situations you guys 3-bet out of the BB when it is HU.

From a non-steal position, I never 3-bet out of the BB. From a steal position, I only 3-bet against weak players, who will give up easily postflop. From a SB open-raise, I am 3-betting an incredibly wide range.

[oreogod]

Usually I 3 bet the top 20 percent of hands such as:

44+,A2s+,K9s+,Q9s+,J9s+,T9s,98s,A8o+,KTo+,QTo+.

I know Jason Pohl (guy who wrote some really good HU articles) reccommends 3betting top 18.25 percent of hands which is:

66+,A5s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs+,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+

So a little tighter than my range. Intrestingly he doesnt 3bet JTo either.

[einbert]

In a HU pot I will pretty much never threebet from the BB. If I have a strong hand I instead call and checkraise most flops.

EDIT: Against a SB openraise I am threebetting an extremely wide range as well. Maybe top 1/3 of hands or so.

[scotty34]

[ QUOTE ]
In a HU pot I will pretty much never threebet from the BB. If I have a strong hand I instead call and checkraise most flops.


[/ QUOTE ]

I had never considered this, and usually always 3-bet TT-AA, AK, AQ etc.

Care to explain the reasoning?

[kurosh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In a HU pot I will pretty much never threebet from the BB. If I have a strong hand I instead call and checkraise most flops.


[/ QUOTE ]

I had never considered this, and usually always 3-bet TT-AA, AK, AQ etc.

Care to explain the reasoning?

[/ QUOTE ]It makes it very easy to play against you when I know you have one of 6 or so hands.

[oreogod]

Kurosh...how does your general 3bet range compared to what I posted above?

[PassiveCaller]

There is another way to fix this that doesn't involve calling more.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In a HU pot I will pretty much never threebet from the BB. If I have a strong hand I instead call and checkraise most flops.


[/ QUOTE ]

I had never considered this, and usually always 3-bet TT-AA, AK, AQ etc.

Care to explain the reasoning?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure. I feel like threebetting with a wide range of hands in this spot often makes the pot quite big when I am out of position. Especially against the tricky, aggressive LAGs and TAGs of 10/20 6max, this seems like anything but a good thing to me. Also, since they are so used to getting threebet from the blinds (because twoplustwoers do it constantly) by hands like Ace big and middle to high pocket pairs, it takes some of the edge from their handreading ability. Also, there are certain hands like AK, AQ, AJ that I will throw away after a lot of flops. Let's say the LAG button raises and I have AKo in the BB. If I threebet that is great if I hit the flop, or if neither of us hit the flop, because I take the pot down. But on flops that are just bad for AK, particularly flops with two cards in the playing zone, I am almost forced to bet the flop and against some players the turn OOP. If you play around with pokerstove you will see that AK is a dog to almost any steal raiser's range of hands on this flop. Yet because the pot has been bloated by the preflop action, I am forced to "stab in the dark" at the pot and hope the button has missed the flop as badly as I have. Even if the button has missed the flop as badly as I have, he may decide to call the flop and I will frequently end up having to fold the best hand. So even though I am ahead *some* of the time that flop bet goes in, I don't get to realize my equity.

In addition, I feel that the BB call/flop checkraise is seen as largely a semibluff play with flopped draws. Let's say the button raises with an ace high hand and I call in the BB with QQ, and the flop comes down three rags with a flush draw. I can get my flop checkraise in and get him to call a turn and river bet because of the hand I have represented, whereas he would have no reason to call me down with an ace little if I had threebet before the flop.

Citing specific examples isn't too helpful I guess, but I have experimented with this play a lot and I have really gotten a feel that it is more profitable. It's pretty hard to say for sure in LHE but I think it is definitely an option worth considering.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
There is another way to fix this that doesn't involve calling more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but do you really want to be threebetting hands like A8s and 77 OOP against tough aggressive players?

[kurosh]

[ QUOTE ]
Kurosh...how does your general 3bet range compared to what I posted above?

[/ QUOTE ]Well, like I said, I generally don't 3-bet unless it's SB vs BB. If it's a steal situation and they are a weak player, I 3-bet Ax, K7+, Q8+, J9+ and any PP. If it's SB vs BB, I will 3-bet nearly anything. It depends on how often they are raising my blind and their ability.

[PassiveCaller]

You don't need to bend over so far that suddenly your own pocket is in jeopardy...

[scotty34]

Thanks for the analysis, and it seems to make sense. I play 5/10 though, and I think this generally applies to higher games. I don't usually encounter really tricky LAG players, they are generally pretty straightforward. I will keep this in mind though as I encounter different situations.

[TheMetetron]

The answer depends on if it's truly a HU match (which the BB is OOP) or simply a SB vs BB battle (which the BB has position).

OOP, top 20% of hands.

In position, top 30-35%.


Also, I probably shouldn't be telling you this /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[kurosh]

I think I worded this badly. I meant in a 6-max game where the pot is currently only being contested HU. IE, guy raises and it's folded to you in the BB.

[TheMetetron]

No, I think my reading comprehension sucks as after re-reading your original post it makes sense.

I think you are pretty spot on with what you said in the OP as far as ranges.

[oreogod]

hmmm I just assumed HU, not six max.

[Wynton]

I have spent a fair amount of time struggling with the issue when to 3-bet in hu situations, from the bb. Frankly, the only answer that is remotely comprehensible to me is that there is no set answer.

For one thing, it seems that there is a huge amoount of variance in the way that our opponents play hu. (Granted, I am speaking about 5/10 and below, so perhaps that makes a difference.) Moreover, if we are playing against a player with any history, mixing it up seems more important than any other factor.

If there was an approach with an obvious mathematical edge as there are in many or most of our decisions, that would be different. But it just seems that there are too many permutations for that to be the case, when discussing HU situations.