short stacked, what kind of hands do i want to get all in multiway

[Unabridged]

preflop
say i have around 20BB at a full table, all stacks cover me most have 100BB.
i figure i probably want to avoid naked big pairs because they get very dominated by higher pairs. all wraps are probably good. but what about hands like A4sKJs

[joewatch]

I never play that shortstacked, but I would probably get it all-in with AAxx, AKKxs, any 4 broadway cards, and any ds wrap hands.

[Unabridged]

i'm not talking about pushing with these hands, i'm just saying if i have an oppurtunity to get like 4:1 or 5:1 what should i call with

[RoundTower]

I would get it all in with any kind of playable hand including hands like 5667 and 3467 unsuited. Generally there is enough of a chance that you will be getting 4-1 on your 20BB and one or more of the other players will drop out
when they still had a chance to win the pot, giving you an overlay on your money.

[joewatch]

I don't agree that 5667 and 3467 are worth getting money all-in with (or even playing). In general, you should be playing tighter short-stacked as any hand you play becomes a significant portion of your stack. These garbage hands are only worth playing if double-suited, and even then, they are still marginal.

If it is all in before the flop, what is the most common winning hand? The answer is 2-pair. Whenever you have low cards, it's much more likely that somebody else's 2-pair beats your 2-pair.

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't agree that 5667 and 3467 are worth getting money all-in with (or even playing). In general, you should be playing tighter short-stacked as any hand you play becomes a significant portion of your stack. These garbage hands are only worth playing if double-suited, and even then, they are still marginal.

If it is all in before the flop, what is the most common winning hand? The answer is 2-pair. Whenever you have low cards, it's much more likely that somebody else's 2-pair beats your 2-pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you some twodimes numbers on this hands versus 3 playable hands including high cards and high pairs you are probably going to want to amend your post. The poster said he's getting 4 or 5:1.

[joewatch]

Well, I'm too lazy to run hands 5-way. Anybody want to volunteer?

[beset7]

totally contrived but just for fun:

win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ts Ac Ad Jh 41750 20.73 155772 77.35 3854 1.91 0.214
Qc Jc Td Kh 31931 15.86 165557 82.21 3888 1.93 0.165
Qs 9s 9d Qh 29770 14.78 171517 85.17 89 0.04 0.148
Js 8s Th 9h 26608 13.21 170859 84.85 3909 1.94 0.139
7s 6c 5d 3h 67374 33.46 134002 66.54 0 0.00 0.335

edit: changed the whole post

[joewatch]

Beset - that's cheating! You had everyone blocking each other completely. LOL

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
Beset - that's cheating! You had everyone blocking each other completely. LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

i tried to come up with a real one but i got lazy

[Unabridged]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I'm too lazy to run hands 5-way. Anybody want to volunteer?

[/ QUOTE ]

what program do people use to make those lists for holdem hands? like where it ranks hands against X # of opponents with hands in the top Y%

[Unabridged]

[ QUOTE ]
I would get it all in with any kind of playable hand including hands like 5667 and 3467 unsuited. Generally there is enough of a chance that you will be getting 4-1 on your 20BB and one or more of the other players will drop out
when they still had a chance to win the pot, giving you an overlay on your money.

[/ QUOTE ]

i figure hands like 5667 or 3467 fare worse than Axs + Kxs with someother broadway, but i'm not sure and really have no way to prove it (hence the thread)

usually only 1 or 2 opponents will stay until showdown

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, I'm too lazy to run hands 5-way. Anybody want to volunteer?

[/ QUOTE ]

what program do people use to make those lists for holdem hands? like where it ranks hands against X # of opponents with hands in the top Y%

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you mean pokerstove? the programmer andrew prock said he plans on adding Omaha some day but it's not a big priority for him.

[Unabridged]

[ QUOTE ]

I think you mean pokerstove? the programmer andrew prock said he plans on adding Omaha some day but it's not a big priority for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, thats the one. i hope he adds it one day. i'd really like to see how the hand rankings change as more people get added.
the only problem i see is that different players could have a wide difference on what they consider the top 20%, 10%, or 5% hands. so it could be tough to give them a range of hands

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I think you mean pokerstove? the programmer andrew prock said he plans on adding Omaha some day but it's not a big priority for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, thats the one. i hope he adds it one day. i'd really like to see how the hand rankings change as more people get added.
the only problem i see is that different players could have a wide difference on what they consider the top 20%, 10%, or 5% hands. so it could be tough to give them a range of hands

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the way it works is you set a hand-range for the player based on your read of them and then it quantifies your equity versus that range. It would be tougher to put your opponent on a tight range preflop in Omaha but postflop you could do it relatively easily if you know the player at all.

[TheRempel]

These kinds of hands tend to have a [censored]load of equity in low and mid limit PLO games online because people overplay the crap out of big pairs and broadway cards. Anytime you are all in in a multiway pot with a low run or a low pair and two coordinated cards you are going to be neutral equity at the very least in these games and quite often a decent favorite. Beset's example was *somewhat* extreme but not really too far out. I'll put my stack in with 5677ss before I'll do the same with AKQJss.