Horray, 1st 10-20 hand post

[B00T]

Villian is 43/12/2.1 400 hands and nothing special, he seems kinda straight forward and the kind of player, I am trying to deviate from being myself.

Ultimate Bet 10/20 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
3 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero bets</font>, SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps</font>, SB calls.

River: (13.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

I have been trying to incorporate this more at 10-20 instead of being so straightforward and people are lot more willing to play back at you in the blinds. I remember James282 posting something about playing hands like this although I think it was just in a heads up game. Comments?

Even though I've under-represented my hand here, I'm calling down after the 3 bet given his flop line. I do this a lot with AA/KK.

[Terrabon98]

After he 3-bets the turn, I go into calldown mode

[Kimpan]

[ QUOTE ]
Even though I've under-represented my hand here, I'm calling down after the 3 bet given his flop line. I do this a lot with AA/KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

you call down after he 3-bet you on flop? I think this is weak.. I call down after the 3-bet on turn..

Actually, I'd fold when he makes it 3 bets pre-flop... Of course I'm talking about the turn.

[adamstewart]

First of all: CAP PREFLOP. Whenever you don't cap AA preflop, you're leaving a half bet at the table. Unless, you feel VERY comfortable with post-flop play ... and as you can see here .... you aren't.

The rest of the hand plays differently from there.

Nevertheless, my preferred postflop line in situations like this is to simply call the villains flop check-raise. Then raise his turn bet.

Now, had I *capped* preflop, I would simply call down after villains Turn 3-bet. But here it's a little more difficult ... but I'd still simply call down after turn 3-bet.


As you can see, when you don't cap AA preflop we deviate from the fundamental theorem of poker. More importantly, we leave ourselves increasingly susceptible to more major deviations from the Theorem post-flop. Bad, bad, bad.


Adam

[Surfbullet]

I'm going to agree with adam here.

While not capping certainly isn't that big of a mistake in and of itself, it can lead to complete spewage like this where we feel "he doesn't know I have Aces!" while in reality he's thoroughly represnting a hand that can beat 1 pair.

I'd recommnend flatcalling 3bets with premiums when you are against a player who is A) TAGy B) quite observant C) a good hand reader and D) one whom you will clash with often.

It's just a waste otherwise IMO. This guy doesn't know you have aces. There are plenty of lagtards in these games who cap all sorts of crap, and he doesn't know that you are a TAG most likely. The beauty of these aggressive games is that you don't have to work hard at deceiving your opponents about strong holding because noone believes you anyway.

As it stands I 3bet the flop. If a player is more predictable i'll wait till the turn, but that would be if I expected to be able to confidently fold to a 3bet, which is not clear here at all. With a stronger holding waiting for the turn is better because we make an extra SB, but with a 1-pair hand it's cheaper to get reraised on the flop where I can call down from there and put a raise in if i improve and deem my hand worth a raise vs his range.

Surf

[goofball]

I'll go out on a limb here and say I think you played it fine postflop. As everyone else says cap pf duh.

Postflop though, that checkraise is almost never a set and is usually something like KK or another very strong one pair hand like AJ. Given that and that you raised the deuce on the turn that made a flush draw (and look very suspicious) I think the cap is fine. When you cap a street it gets you a very honest reaction on the next street. If he bets you should probably just call, had he checked you would bet of course.

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to agree with adam here.

While not capping certainly isn't that big of a mistake in and of itself, it can lead to complete spewage like this where we feel "he doesn't know I have Aces!" while in reality he's thoroughly represnting a hand that can beat 1 pair.

I'd recommnend flatcalling 3bets with premiums when you are against a player who is A) TAGy B) quite observant C) a good hand reader and D) one whom you will clash with often.

It's just a waste otherwise IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you sure you and Adam agree? It sounds like Adam would cap this preflop against all opponents. Is this right, Adam?

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to agree with adam here.

While not capping certainly isn't that big of a mistake in and of itself, it can lead to complete spewage like this where we feel "he doesn't know I have Aces!" while in reality he's thoroughly represnting a hand that can beat 1 pair.

I'd recommnend flatcalling 3bets with premiums when you are against a player who is A) TAGy B) quite observant C) a good hand reader and D) one whom you will clash with often.

It's just a waste otherwise IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you sure you and Adam agree? It sounds like Adam would cap this preflop against all opponents. Is this right, Adam?

[/ QUOTE ]


Correct. Cap preflop against any opponent here - for reasons I've already specified above.


Adam

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]
As you can see, when you don't cap AA preflop we deviate from the fundamental theorem of poker. More importantly, we leave ourselves increasingly susceptible to more major deviations from the Theorem post-flop. Bad, bad, bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to add that this is the most persuasive reason I've seen for capping. I spend so much energy trying to figure out whether I can trick my opponent into putting in an extra bet, that I forget that such ploys often end up merely tricking myself into more difficult situations.

[Surfbullet]

Thanks Wynton,

I started agreeing with adam and realized that there was 1 circumstance that I felt flat-calling would be beneficial...but against that opponent and in those circumstances i would probably either A) never cap or B) cap tons of stuff.

Surf

[B00T]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the comments. I guess with my inital hand post I should of included as much info as I can. I have played all 400 hands I have on him againist him at the table. I am ruthless with blind stealing and take it from there. I wanted to play a little trick on this guy instead of just capping and then betting the flop showing him I mean business.

I think he is the type of player that would cap with AJ and up along with even 99 and up againist me. No matter what the flop was I would of waited to pump the turn unless an ace came on the flop. I think I have the image to him that I am really only betting and continuing to fire when I have nothing. I figured the best way to get bets out of him was to wait.

Given the turn action, I would of put him on a AJs, 99, QQ, and KK even KQs about 80% of the time and TT or JJ 20% of the time. I truly thought he would of checked the river to me where I would of bet/called.

I dont know how much action I would of lost on the flop if I just hit it hard from the getgo.

This is definitely not a "standard" play for me but trying to incorporate some different lines especially playing againist a player that I see frequently.

Villian showed QQ which at least made me feel like a good player for a whole 2 minutes. I know in this instance I earned more this hand than if I played it as hard and fast as possible. It just got me thinking if this is "acceptable" say once every 3 times in this situation.

Thanks for the comments once again.

[Surfbullet]

Step1: make a note on him that he overplays overpairs.
Step2: Profit.

Nh. It sounds like you were comfortable generating this excess action against this player because you knew he'd put that many bets in with a 1 pair hand. It's important to recognize that, and act on it, which it looks like you did /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Surf

[Danenania]

Cap PF because you should cap many weaker hands in this spot as well. A cap won't lose you any action. The places to not cap AA/KK PF are those where A.) capping would narrow your range to a very small/strong group of hands and B.) you are against an opponent who knows that and will respond accordingly.

Postflop on this hand I think you should call down after the turn 3-bet.