20-40: Reverse John Feeney

[Clarkmeister]

Tommy asked me why I hadn't posted a hand recently, so here's one.

I raise UTG in a juicy 20-40 game with AsQh and am 3-bet by a thinking but a bit too overaggressive player in MP. Unknown player who hadn't been involved in too many pots coldcalls on the button, blinds fold, I call. 3 to the flop for 10.5sbs.

Flop: Ac Th 3c. I check, MP bets, button calls, I checkraise, MP 3-bets, button coldcalls, I 4-bet (not a cap), both call. 3 to the turn for 11.25BBs.

Turn: [Ac Th 3c] Ts. I bet, both call.

River: [Ac Th 3c Ts] 3d. I check.

Thoughts?

[gavrilo]

MP can't figure you for a Ten so I would imagine if MP had AK, he would throw in a raise on the turn or if either of them had a Ten themselves, they would raise the turn.

I'm guessing here that MP had a Weaker ace or something like KK,QQ,JJ, but the button and all the coldcalling especially since he's hasn't played that many hands, that kinda worries me, if I had to take a shot, I'd say you either split with the button or he took it down with AK as was just letting you two bet the flop but then got a little scared when the second ten came out.

But what the hell do I know.

[baseball38]

why stop betting now? I would still believe I have the best hand.

baseball38 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif

[Georgia Peach]

The button calling all this action certainly smells of a slowplay with AA, or even TT. He sees all the action before him and just rides along.

So, I understand the check on the river. If the button calls or checks you can raise. If the button bets or raises, fold.

[skp]

The button would have raised on the turn with a full house or quads. I also think that he would have raised the MP's bet on the flop with a big Ace. So, despite Clark's description of the button as a tight player and the MP as a loose aggressive player, I don't think that the button poses any danger to Clark on the river. The loose goose is Clark's main concern. After all, he 3 bet preflop and then 3 bet Clark on the flop. He also called the turn bet.

When Clark checks the river, the MP will check hands like KK and bet hands like AK/AQ. If Clark bets, the MP may call with KK etc and probably only call with AK/AQ.

So, Clark should have bet the river.

Incidentally, if it was the button that bet the river here, Clark should *definitely* not fold. Folding for one bet in this spot is insane. In fact, raising should be considered in case the MP cautiously checked AK/AQ. The button's play up to the river looks like he was on a flush draw.

[Georgia Peach]

Why would he raise the turn with quads? Isn't that the perfect hand to slowplay, especially when two other players are doing all the raising? If he's got aces, he has the nut FH as well and wouldn't need or want to drive anyone out of the hand.

[gavrilo]

with His description as the Button being tight, I'm doubtful that the button had clubs since the Ace of clubs was on the flop unless he called 3 cold preflop with KQ of clubs, but I doubt it.

[Clarkmeister]

I think I should have bet the river because its awful hard for anyone to raise me with a worse hand, though its quite possible that a better hand (AK) would check behind also. I think skp kind of echoed my thoughts on the hand, though I'm surprised no one thought I overplayed the flop at all.

Anyways, I checked, MP checked and Button hesitated, almost bet, then checked and flipped up AhJh. I showed my AQ and MP mucked.

Ship it.

[rharless]

I'm surprised no one thought I overplayed the flop at all

We're getting a little desensitized, I think. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

[Ed Miller]

I think skp kind of echoed my thoughts on the hand, though I'm surprised no one thought I overplayed the flop at all.

FWIW, I thought you overplayed the flop... but I'm starting to get the feeling that I underplay my strong hands a little too much and don't get quite enough value for them.

[bigfishead]

River: [Ac Th 3c Ts] 3d. I check.

Get the girly man a dress floorperson!
That's all right Clarky...I'll post MY girly man hand tomorrow after work.

BTW Aside from pussin out on the river I have no prob w/any street.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Clark:

I don't see any reason for you to play your hand so aggressively on the flop. There's a good chance you are beat, and you're not accomplishing anything. In my opinion it makes more sense to try to check raise the turn. Now you might get someone to fold and you might want them to.

best wishes,
Mason

[skp]

But on the turn, there were no raises so I am not sure what you mean when you say "especially when two other players are doing all the raising".

Not all raises are done to limit the field. Many are made for value. Here, when Clark bets and MP calls, the button is making a serious error by just calling calling with AA or TT. He should raise as his chances of being called on the turn by both players are greater than the chances of (a) being able to get in a raise on the river at all or (b) having that raise called by both players.