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J. Stew

12-02-2005, 04:18 PM

This is villains second hand.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif. MP posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, MP (poster) checks, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP raises, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero calls.

Wasn't sure whether calling, donking, or folding was right here. A flush draw or an Ace are most likely here.

River: (5.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero folds.

Flush came, an Ace has me beat, I fold, good? I wasn't sure if folding was borderline weak or right.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB

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Mp is loose limper. BB seems like average player through 10 hands, hasn't done anything out of the ordinary.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, MP calls, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB raises, MP folds, Hero 3-bets, BB calls.

Villian check raises, I think he could be c/r'ing with mid pp or an Ace.

Turn: (7 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

BB quick called the turn and I thought he probably had an Ace here.

River: (9 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

I'm not bumpin him off an Ace so I'm just guessin if my kicker is better than his, take a free showdown or bet?

Final Pot: 11 BB

milesdyson

12-02-2005, 04:22 PM

fold turn in hand 1.

i'm checking river through on hand 2. you only beat A3/A5/A7. A9, AT, AJ, AQ (many players do not 3-bet AQ in his spot) all beat you, and players at this limit rarely go after preflop raisers on an A-high flop with less than the ace.

Redd

12-02-2005, 04:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
players at this limit rarely go after preflop raisers on an A-high flop with less than the ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with this statement miles, and consequently would bet the river here. The fact that we probably would have seen more action from a 2-paired ace also makes me think we're ahead often enough to value-bet.

spydog

12-02-2005, 04:28 PM

Hand 1: Small pot, fold the turn.

Hand 2: Call down his flop checkraise and bet if he checks to you. Your flop 3-bet will force him to fold a pure bluff that he might continue on the turn/river.

J. Stew

12-02-2005, 04:29 PM

Gratzi, you're fast.

Reef

12-02-2005, 04:33 PM

hand 1: fold turn

hand 2: as it played, I think I check river behind

elitegimp

12-02-2005, 05:31 PM

I think the turn is closer (between call and fold) than people are making it out to be because you pick up the gut-shot as well. There are 9 cards that improve your hand (4 Ks, 3 Qs, 2 Js), discounted because you might be up against a flush draw or two pair or AQ/AK... but if all 9 outs are clean you're 4:1 to win and getting 4.5:1 on your money. I think it comes down to how many of your outs you are willing to check-raise if you hit (i.e. Js gives you trips, but you mention that Villian could be making this play w/ a flush draw) to get the extra bets to cover your discounted outs.

milesdyson

12-02-2005, 05:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
players at this limit rarely go after preflop raisers on an A-high flop with less than the ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with this statement miles, and consequently would bet the river here. The fact that we probably would have seen more action from a 2-paired ace also makes me think we're ahead often enough to value-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
i'm assuming the guy is slowing down with all those better non two-pair aces when we 3-bet the flop. i don't think he has two pair. i'm just saying we don't beat as many single pair aces as beat us. so i don't bet.

i don't see the disagreement either... what non ace+ hands do you think someone is check raising with against us at 0.5/1? the standard move for the typ. player with an ace against us is to check call every street in fear of a better ace.

Redd

12-02-2005, 06:12 PM

I suppose I haven't been playing at Party lately, but IMO there's plenty of players who will checkraise pockets > 4 here. If we're ahead of 55-99 [6x4] A3 A5 A7 [3xedit:8], and behind A9-AQ [4xedit:8], we have about 60% equity.

Meh, I guess it's pretty close. I'd say we only need about 55% to value-bet here since we're not getting raised very often, but this completely discounts any 2p hands. But it also completely discounts any donkish 4-big pairs.

So I'm basically unsure if this is a hair above or below 0EV. I guess a check behind is ok.

...you win this round, dyson.

milesdyson

12-02-2005, 06:16 PM

you're counting 55-99 as equally likely to all the aces. some players raise do check raise this, but they are the minority. however, as stellarwind has commented here recently, because you were check raised on the flop, you are more likely to be against a player to check raise a larger range here. still, these hands should be discounted, leaving our equity near or under 50%.