($22) 87s, quad8 -- final bet?

***** Hand History for Game 3130789574 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:17912008 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Friday, December 02, 07:11:12 EDT 2005
Table Table 67149 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Tintin333 ( $995 )
Seat 5: willamk ( $785 )
Seat 9: Bazuulbazuul ( $800 )
Seat 2: LongLT ( $790 )
Seat 7: RaceCrDriver ( $800 )
Seat 4: jscofbigd ( $615 )
Seat 6: maluw ( $800 )
Seat 8: jklka ( $855 )
Seat 3: julian2006 ( $760 )
Seat 10: HappyFeelin ( $800 )
Trny:17912008 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Bazuulbazuul [ 8h 7h ]
RaceCrDriver calls [15].
jklka folds.
Bazuulbazuul calls [15].
LongLT: privet ukrajina
HappyFeelin folds.
Tintin333 folds.
LongLT folds.
julian2006 folds.
jscofbigd calls [15].
willamk calls [5].
maluw checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4d, 8c, 8s ]
willamk checks.
maluw checks.
RaceCrDriver checks.
Bazuulbazuul bets [15].
jscofbigd calls [15].
willamk calls [15].
maluw folds.
RaceCrDriver calls [15].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8d ]
willamk checks.
RaceCrDriver checks.
Bazuulbazuul bets [50].
jscofbigd calls [50].
willamk folds.
RaceCrDriver calls [50].
** Dealing River ** [ Qs ]
RaceCrDriver checks.
Bazuulbazuul is all-In [720]
jscofbigd is all-In [535]
RaceCrDriver is all-In [720]
RaceCrDriver shows [ Kh, Qc ] a full house, Eights full of queens.
Bazuulbazuul shows [ 8h, 7h ] four of a kind, eights.
jscofbigd shows [ 4h, 4s ] a full house, Eights full of fours.
Bazuulbazuul wins 370 chips from side pot #1 with four of a kind, eights.
Bazuulbazuul wins 1890 chips from the main pot with four of a kind, eights.
jscofbigd finished in tenth place.
RaceCrDriver finished in ninth place.
jscofbigd has left the table.
RaceCrDriver has left the table.


1) I normally make a .5/.75 pot-sized bet when I flop trips. In this case, however, there were no obvious draws available, so I minbet to try to sweeten the pot. Was this wrong?

2) I debated long and hard before pushing on the river. Not my usual play, but it "felt" right. Was hoping anybody out there with a fullhouse would call my push who otherwise may have just called vs. raising a smaller bet I might have made. Obviously it worked here, but was it the right play?

3) Does anyone know of a handconverter that doesn't puke when you give it a partypoker hand with all-ins in it?

4) Obviously I got very lucky here. I'm not posting this to show off my lucky hand -- I really want to know how to play this. I don't flop quads often and would like to know how to maximize my chances of getting paid off in this situation. What I did worked out here, doesn't mean it's right.

Thanks.
Baz

[tigerite]

I think a push works well here. I pushed a royal (my first one) on the river last night in a $109 and was called by trip ten's. That was fun. (It was using both of my hole cards, so quite well disguised, and didn't hit til the river card)

[Sciolist]

Ok. I don't like to disagree with tigerite, but I don't like your play on any of the streets.

Preflop - why are you playing 87s with one limper in early position? I'm passing this every time.

Flop - why are you betting the minimum? This is 20% of the pot. This screams an eight.

Turn - OK, I like this street.

River - You maximised your winnings, so clearly you made a good play in this situation. But what kind of hand is going to call you? Even something like 99 has to seriously consider passing here. I am betting ~half the pot, like on the turn. QK is going to reraise here every time, so I'm likely to be paid off the same as you in this hand, but I'm also going to be paid off in other hands. I realise that the 44 guy makes a mockery of this argument, but you can't rely on everyone being as stupid as him.

[tigerite]

Aye, the play on the other streets was crap, to be fair. Hadn't bothered addressing that.

Do you guys feel the same way if the table you've been playing at has been very passive? i.e., lots of limpers, few reraisers.

I see people with weak draws minbet to try to stop other people from betting out. I think weak players with AT+, KJ+ could make this play hoping to match up an overcard.

If I were playing at a strong table, I would have played this much differently. With these players, I really felt that betting strongly on any of the streets would just scare them off. With four of a kind, there is no need to try to protect my hand. I think someone with Ace high could try to bluff the river.

Do you still think my play is crap? Like I mentioned in OP, this is not how I'd typically play the hand. I'm trying to learn to adapt play to the table/limits I'm at.

If I'm just deluding myself with this logic, don't be afraid of hurting my feelings by saying so.

Thanks again,
Baz

[ QUOTE ]
Do you guys feel the same way if the table you've been playing at has been very passive? i.e., lots of limpers, few reraisers.

I see people with weak draws minbet to try to stop other people from betting out. I think weak players with AT+, KJ+ could make this play hoping to match up an overcard.

If I were playing at a strong table, I would have played this much differently. With these players, I really felt that betting strongly on any of the streets would just scare them off. With four of a kind, there is no need to try to protect my hand. I think someone with Ace high could try to bluff the river.

Do you still think my play is crap? Like I mentioned in OP, this is not how I'd typically play the hand. I'm trying to learn to adapt play to the table/limits I'm at.

If I'm just deluding myself with this logic, don't be afraid of hurting my feelings by saying so.

Thanks again,
Baz

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with the min bet is that you could've bet t40, and basically no hand that was calling the t15 would've folded. Minbetting directly costs you t25 per caller, and indirectly costs you much more by forcing you to bet smaller on the turn and river (I'm ignoring the odds that you lose the hand for simplicity).

[Sciolist]

Plus you also tell anyone good on the table that you have 44 or an eight. My view is that it's very hard to tell who is decent and who is bad so early in a tournament, and that I'm going to be playing in a way so as to maximise my winnings in the long run. I don't think that the way you played it does that. Of course, if you have a ninja read on the table, the way you did it is fine. I don't like relying on ninja reads though.

OK, I understand much better now. Thanks!

[ QUOTE ]
My view is that it's very hard to tell who is decent and who is bad so early in a tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's pretty safe to assume at low stakes that you're decent and everyone else is bad until they make it abundantly clear that they're not bad.

[Sciolist]

Fair enough, maybe I'm stuck in the ring game mentality - I want someone to prove they're crap before assuming so. I figure I'll take their money eventually anyway, and that isn't really the case in SNG.