View Full Version : I can't put this guy on a hand
Stars 2/4 6-max. Two calling stations on my left are donking it up big time. I hate my position but they sat down after me and I can't move. And playing OOP against them is still far better than playing at any other table.
Donk #2 limps UTG, two players fold, the button raises to $20. This guy has just been sitting over there staying out of the way, and unless he's a complete idiot he can see that he's going to get looked up by anything by these clowns, so he must have a hand. He should also view me as playing very tight. I'm in the SB with KK. I reraise to $60. Both donks fold. Button takes a little time and calls. He started with around $400.
Flop is KQx. I bet $75, he thinks a little and raises to $150. I carefully push the slider to the far right and raise all-in. He folds for his last $200. wtf??
AK or AA, correctly putting you on a set?
AcesUp2121
12-02-2005, 08:00 AM
Maybe he put you on jacks.
fuzzbox
12-02-2005, 08:02 AM
No way its AA, but AK seems like a winner
yvesaint
12-02-2005, 08:05 AM
AK
The_Bends
12-02-2005, 08:07 AM
AK if he's good. JJ/AQ/worse if he's just making a move to test you.
Only one K left in the deck. If I had QQ it would be a lot more likely that he could have AK.
I just keep alternating between loving the money I made on this hand and being really pissed off that he folded what apparently was a strong hand... at some point. And then I keep wondering if I would have folded the best hand if I hadn't flopped a set and he was just making a move with 77 or something.
yvesaint
12-02-2005, 08:14 AM
if hes decent i dont see him making any sort of moves with a min-raise on a KQx board against a preflop re-raiser
If he's bad, I can see it being AQ as well I suppose, or JJ, but he'd have to be pretty bad to call preflop with AQ and to minraise on the flop with either of those hands.
As for AA...I can see a good player lay that down in Helmuthian style. Think about it, if you have AA and you raise preflop, and then you are reraised...you figure villain (who is tight) has AKs, KK, or QQ for the MOST part. Flop comes KQx...so now all he is beating is AK. Is Ak going to play back at him that hard, knowing that villain could have AA? Maybe not...just a possibility heh
[/ QUOTE ] Flop is KQx. I bet $75, he thinks a little and raises to $150. I carefully push the slider to the far right and raise all-in. He folds for his last $200. wtf??
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Just out of curiosity why do you push to his flop raise?
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if hes decent i dont see him making any sort of moves with a min-raise on a KQx board against a preflop re-raiser
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That's why his fold baffled me.
why are you so baffled? It could easily just be a poorly played AK hand
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Flop is KQx. I bet $75, he thinks a little and raises to $150. I carefully push the slider to the far right and raise all-in. He folds for his last $200. wtf??
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Just out of curiosity why do you push to his flop raise?
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Because I had the nuts and thought he'd call.
But why is that a better play then just calling his raise and hoping he'll fire another barrel on the turn?
What sort of a hand would push on the turn that wouldn't call it all on the flop?
Some ppl may think of it as "weaker" to just call, thus they may be more willing to get all their money in.
I dunno the way I see this hand he opened Pre-flop with something like J10 suited and called your re-raise. He flopped an OESD, so he was smashing with outs (putting you on probably AK and figuring you wont back off it). Your push tells him to forget about drawing because you have the goods. I just don't see him having AA because he didn't go over the top of you pre-flop and I really think he woulda called on the flop. AK is a good possibility but even then IMO he has to have a pretty solid line on you not to call that flop. That's just the way I see things.
djoyce003
12-02-2005, 09:22 AM
I think AA is his most likely hand and since you reraised he's putting you on KK/QQ at worst AK but given the way you pushed I think he settled for KK or QQ and he made a good fold. I'd have flat called the raise and maybe made a medium sized turn bet and try to make it look more like AK...the push makes what you have fairly obvious and given your description of this player I'd be thinking you won't get his stack that way.
4_2_it
12-02-2005, 10:17 AM
If he was Hellmuth then he had QQ. If not, he probably had either AK (75%) or JJ(25%) and is a thinking player. With two big fish at the table you can't be surprised that another shark has smelled the chum.
kongo_totte
12-02-2005, 10:26 AM
He has A A.
Ghazban
12-02-2005, 10:32 AM
I wouldn't worry about it too much. He tried to steal on the cheap (the minraise) and it blew up on him. His raising range preflop in this situation ought to be fairly wide and many players have a hard time folding to reraises even if they didn't have much when they raised (the thinking is usually an overconfidence about the hidden value of their hand and the fact that they have 2 live cards). If you were reraising something like JJ or AQ, he can probably win the pot with nothing by making his puny minraise.
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I think AA is his most likely hand and since you reraised he's putting you on KK/QQ at worst AK but given the way you pushed I think he settled for KK or QQ and he made a good fold. I'd have flat called the raise and maybe made a medium sized turn bet and try to make it look more like AK...the push makes what you have fairly obvious and given your description of this player I'd be thinking you won't get his stack that way.
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Once I call the raise there's $420 in the pot and he has around $190 left.
Leptyne
12-02-2005, 04:31 PM
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I think AA is his most likely hand and since you reraised he's putting you on KK/QQ at worst AK but given the way you pushed I think he settled for KK or QQ and he made a good fold. I'd have flat called the raise and maybe made a medium sized turn bet and try to make it look more like AK...the push makes what you have fairly obvious and given your description of this player I'd be thinking you won't get his stack that way.
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Once I call the raise there's $420 in the pot and he has around $190 left.
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I think pushing his raise just gives him a chance to get away. If you smoothcall and lead the turn for $100 how can he get away? I don't see how giving him a look at the turn is going to hurt.
First read, I put him on AK right away.
It's unusual that he has the case king, but hey, it happens.
As for AA...it seems like lot of people will just push preflop after the re-raise. Maybe that's just at the 25-50NL tables I play at though.
DoomSlice
12-02-2005, 04:34 PM
The min-raise seems a whole lot like just a feeler bet, not even considering the results, rather than a sheer display of strength. In situations like this I will push 50% of the time, but also call 50% of the time and then lead the turn for about half his stack.
It has been my experience that people who don't call 3-bets often DO call stop-n-gos.
djoyce003
12-02-2005, 04:37 PM
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I think AA is his most likely hand and since you reraised he's putting you on KK/QQ at worst AK but given the way you pushed I think he settled for KK or QQ and he made a good fold. I'd have flat called the raise and maybe made a medium sized turn bet and try to make it look more like AK...the push makes what you have fairly obvious and given your description of this player I'd be thinking you won't get his stack that way.
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Once I call the raise there's $420 in the pot and he has around $190 left.
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so? A decent player is going to fold there if he knows he's beat...it's still $200 to call there and he figures he's drawing practically dead.
My point is that a medium-size bet on the turn is still a push.
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