3 HU hands. 10/20 [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

oreogod

12-02-2005, 05:54 AM

3 Heads up hands. Someone asked I post them. I thought they were pretty standard. All contain same villian, been playing him HU for about 10-ish minutes. Anyway, let me know if anything sticks out.

Hand 1: At this point I know villian is aggressive and can be tricky. Its possible he has an ace here, but stuck with me read and considered his flop lead the give away to his hand (unless he decided to bet/3bet me with an Ace instead of CRing)...anybody pop it on the later streets?

There is also the optional: call flop 3bet, pop turn line as well.

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero raises, BB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (8 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB

Hand 2: I was really debating a flop lead, and by the time I checked and he bet, a flop check-raise. Maybe FPS, but I figured he would autobet flop and turn and was going to CR a decent amount of turns. With his turn action that river card had mucho potential for lameness. So is anyones river action different?

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Button calls, Hero checks.

Flop: (2 SB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (2 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, Hero caps, Button calls.

River: (10 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button folds.

Final Pot: 11 BB

Hand 3: Debated the flop bet, but the flop checks always throw me off as 90 percent of the time its an auto bet...but I was thinking of raising some turn card (I dont know which ones) but when he bet I decided to let him fire again. Of course river A is kind of lame. But he 3bets more hands than A-high as well.

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (3 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (5 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB

etizzle

12-02-2005, 06:01 AM

hand2 is player dependant, i like a fold in hand 3. why would he check the flop unless he had a pair on an ace he wanted to get to showdown? by the river i think you win hand three like 0%

oreogod

12-02-2005, 06:05 AM

You are right that Hand 3 is close, but I win it more than O%...win it enough to compare to the pot odds? Now that could be another story, this one was full intuiition based. Granted that river Ace was really really lame. This guy will autobet and try to push u off the best hand for sure, regardless.

Anyway, I did make a gamble on this river by calling.

imported_leader

12-02-2005, 06:23 AM

Hand 2 is way over my head. Can you walk me though why you are not considering a fold at all? What is he doing PF, just limping crap and not folding anything here? So you think Q-high is best here most of the time?

oreogod

12-02-2005, 07:19 AM

well at this point in the match, I was pretty confident he raises all aces and almost all K-high hands from the sb/button. He also autobets a ton, so at best he may have a duece or a 5, if he has anything a 5 would be more likely. But since I belive he autobets and I have prolly the best hand I was intially going to lead this flop. Then I was like, well he will autobet so I will CR him...but just ended up C/C, figuring Id c/r a variety of turns.

The 6 came, its was perfect for me, obviously. He may have actually had a 2 or a 5 here (pair+gutshot, something like that) and I got my card. When he limped I was confident it was low crap cards, suited/connecting cards etc.

My guess is he had a weak made hand. But Id almost expect him to call that, but I cant be betting the river with anything he beats, hence his fold. Unless he was just trying to push me away and figured his move was a bust.

Subfallen

12-02-2005, 07:37 AM

IMO these hands are far from standard. I play a fair amount of 10/20 HU and have encountered only a handful of opponents against which Hands #1 & #2 would be anything but completely spewing.

oreogod

12-02-2005, 08:06 AM

that depends on reads. I go with my read and the most logical range of hands and work from there...whether I won or lost these I feel completely fine about the way hands 1 and 2 were played.

HU its hard to tell what is spewing and what is not sometimes, what looks like spewing to u, was perfectly in tune with my read on opponent. In hand 1, the only time I became slightly concerned was his continuation into the turn.

kiddo

12-02-2005, 08:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I feel completely fine about the way hands 1 and 2 were played.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
what looks like spewing to u, was perfectly in tune with my read on opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you joking?

U post hands and ask if anything sticks out. And when subfallen - who is a good and well known poster - says he thinks something sticks out your answer is: "Nope, it doesnt, they were perfectly played."

And even worse, when u do this you give us no arguments at all. You say that you "feel fine" about the hands and that you played "in tune with your read".

I 100% agree with Subfallen, they stick out. In hand 1 for example u cap 2nd pair, medium kicker on a completly non-drawishflop and then call 2 more Big Bets when another overcard hits and he bets into you. Its not like he is betting a draw so what do u think he is betting?

Of course u can have a superread that makes it all clear that this was the best way to play the hand, but then u shouldnt post because there is nothing noone can say about peoples superreads.

cocofrite

12-02-2005, 09:06 AM

lol

oreogod

12-02-2005, 09:11 AM

Read my intial post, I didnt feel the need to post these...granted it was a one-liner...so here is the detailed explanation: A friend of mine who plays much much higher than me (50/100 to 200/400 games, and one of the best HU players I know) wanted me to post this. He doesnt care for this forum (I do care for it), but he wanted to see what ppl would say. DOnt ask me why. He asked that I post them, so I did.

Also, I dont need anyone to pull the "well known, respected" poster card out on me, I know who is respected and who is not...I know u are a good player, and I get your point...but Im the last person that needs to hear that crap.

Sure, the hands dont look standard, fine...point taken, they felt right and standard at the time I was playing, I went with my read and logic...and whether I won or lost these hands I feel fine about them. Also, like I said, hand 1 I only became concerned when he continued into the turn. HU and 3-4 Handed is my main game, I know this looks like spewing, Id probably tell u the same, its not. I dont know if its super-read or just gut, or some stupid-ass condition, but i felt ahead in these hands.

You can comment on the hands if u want, cool, fine...happy times. I didnt post them for me.

12-02-2005, 09:37 AM

I like hand two if you got a read that he will raise any ace,pp. Maybe the cap is a bit over the top imo but definately raise it. Btw was the river a bet/fold,bet/call or check/call if it was another card?

kiddo

12-02-2005, 11:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I dont need anyone to pull the "well known, respected" poster card out on me... Im the last person that needs to hear that crap.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay. But then I dont need to hear about your friend who kills the 200/400 limit?

I think the problem (for me) is this:

[ QUOTE ]
I know this looks like spewing, Id probably tell u the same, its not. I dont know if its super-read or just gut, or some stupid-ass condition, but i felt ahead in these hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I (and Subfallen) says hand 1 is spewing against most players HU at $10/20 its not because we cant think of a player where this is the perfect line. There are a number of players that are so aggressive that I never ever would fold a flopped pair. But against most players at 10/20 your line is to aggressive/you dont fold fast enough when he shows u he is ahead.

And when the only argument you come up with is that u had a feeling u were ahead, well, its not that I dont trust your feeling, its just that if you cant explain why you had that feeling and why u acted on it like u did, I dont know what it is you (or your friend who is killing the 200/400) want us to discuss.

tongni

12-02-2005, 12:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A friend of mine who plays much much higher than me (50/100 to 200/400 games, and one of the best HU players I know) wanted me to post this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I refuse to believe a person that plays like this could have friends.

TStoneMBD

12-02-2005, 12:55 PM

capping hand 1 is ridiculous against all but the most insane opponents. after playing 10 minutes theres no way you could know he doesnt have an ace on this board or even a 9 with a better kicker.

the turn checkraise in hand 2 after you pick up the 6 is hot. however, im not really a fan of the checkraise on a blank card because alot of players will call your checkraise with a gutshot draw and youll be forced to checkfold the river. unless you have a strong read that he wont call a gutshot i dont like it. id rather checkraise the flop. delayed bluffs out of position are rarely ever good plays. you said hes raising any king or ace preflop so your checkraise has no folding equity. i sincerely doubt he folds a pair. the only better hand that could fold is queen high.

i think you have an easy river fold in hand 3. i agree with etizzle that hes not checking king high or other hands on this board. most importantly however, if you think your hand is strong enough to call a river bet because his hand range is so large then checking the flop is a huge mistake.

TStoneMBD

12-02-2005, 01:48 PM

oh btw capping the turn with the pair of 6s makes no sense. forgot to mention that. id call down.

luckyharr

12-02-2005, 04:11 PM

Hand 1: I would have called the flop 3-bet and called down if I had the read that this player would 3-bet all aces and pairs preflop. Did you end up chopping with a better/worse nine?

Hand 2: Similar to hand 1, it seems okay if you have the read that he will raise all aces and pairs preflop. Still, I think the turn cap is excessive. You're mostly beating a bluff so get an extra bet on him by letting him continue to bluff the river. I think I would have called the three bet and check-raised the river.

Hand 3: That seems like a good flop for you. I would have bet the flop or raised the turn. On the river, it seems like a raise is almost better than a call because you might get him to fold all the middle pairs. How wide is his preflop thee-betting range? KQ, KT, QT?, Q9?, T9s?, 98s?,... it has to be pretty wide to make that river call profitable.

ir0nphist

12-02-2005, 05:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
capping hand 1 is ridiculous against all but the most insane opponents. after playing 10 minutes theres no way you could know he doesnt have an ace on this board or even a 9 with a better kicker.

[/ QUOTE ]

But doesn't it appear that this opponent will 3 bet any ace here PF? I agree that a 9 w/ a better kicker is possible, but I like the cap. Although the turn lead starts to set off alarms.

Terrabon98

12-02-2005, 07:22 PM

First of all, he was asked to post the hands, and he simply said that the hands, if put into context with the rest of the HU hands, were fine in his opinion. There's nothing wrong with that at all. Relax.

oreogod

12-02-2005, 08:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: I would have called the flop 3-bet and called down if I had the read that this player would 3-bet all aces and pairs preflop. Did you end up chopping with a better/worse nine?

Hand 2: Similar to hand 1, it seems okay if you have the read that he will raise all aces and pairs preflop. Still, I think the turn cap is excessive. You're mostly beating a bluff so get an extra bet on him by letting him continue to bluff the river. I think I would have called the three bet and check-raised the river.

Hand 3: That seems like a good flop for you. I would have bet the flop or raised the turn. On the river, it seems like a raise is almost better than a call because you might get him to fold all the middle pairs. How wide is his preflop thee-betting range? KQ, KT, QT?, Q9?, T9s?, 98s?,... it has to be pretty wide to make that river call profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 1: he had 65s, might have been 65o.

Hand 2: he folded so I didnt get to see.

Hand 3: river was a gamble call, in that a couple hands before he had 3 bet KQs and had done the same thing when they hit the flop UI. Of course he did the same thing with TT when he flopped a set...but the difference when he flopped his set he also checked to me on the turn. And he also did this to me with AA. So 2/3 of the time he checked both the flop and turn he had something. The 1/3 of the time he checked the flop, and bet the turn...he had overs UI. I forgot to mention this obviously, but I did hate the river card, alot. It was still a gambool move. Anyway, I got lucky in the fact he had QTs.

Bizot

12-03-2005, 04:27 AM

I love how you played this hand. There is no way this guy has an Ace here at all he would be trying to pimp you preflop not completing. On the turn you have the *top pair* out of the holdings he could have. Hammer him while he tries to fake an ace here.

River = easy

His fold also tells us there is no Ace in his hand as preflop/flop action would have dictated.

NH

bugstud

12-03-2005, 04:44 AM

I'd prefer to have a hand log, but these look like interesting hands. I probably would not taken any of these lines.

oreogod

12-03-2005, 07:12 AM

standard was most likely and defintily, the wrong word to use. My friend was looking at a few of my hands, and mentioned them as intresting, I said they were standard for my read...which is what I meant by standard.

In general, standard is probably a terrible word to describe any poker hands...everything is context w/ poker. If someone posted these out of context Id prolly be like, you are [censored] crazy...but in context they seemed fine. Maybe, as mentioned, no one has come across an opponent that they would take these lines, doesnt mean these dont exist...I didnt take these lines because I feel like giving money away. Hand 1 is probably borderline...a better 9 is possible, and like I mentioned his continuation through the turn was lame, anyway...optimal or not, the hands were played and they happened.

None of these lines are in anyway "normal", compared to the usual route I take w/ them. I dont know, Im rambling and not very well either.