$11 - JJ, trying not to be such a LAG [Archive]

pergesu

12-02-2005, 05:42 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

CO (t1700)
Button (t1280)
SB (t430)
BB (t990)
UTG (t1410)
UTG+1 (t915)
Hero (t700)
MP2 (t575)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG raises to t100, 1 fold, Hero calls t100, couple folds, SB raises to t430 (all-in), UTG calls t330, Hero ??

tigerite

12-02-2005, 05:48 AM

After the UTG min raise, which at an $11 means any two pretty cards, I'd move all-in.

But as we're talking about this exact situation.. I move all-in anyway. SB probably has an ace, UTG has 1.4k, and is doubtless a donk (his min raise alone being reason to suspect that), so let's put him on either an ace, or KQ/KJ/KT, or something along those lines, or a mid pair.

Even if he should be lucky enough to have AK, the overlay makes this play worth it in my opinion.

bjb23

12-02-2005, 05:49 AM

hate to sound laggy, but im pushing here. welcome back, perg.

edit: i mean i push after utg minraises, and since you didnt i think i repush after shorty's push

pergesu

12-02-2005, 05:56 AM

I don't know what I was thinking. This is a freaking 11. Failing to push at the first opportunity is just terrible.

tigerite

12-02-2005, 05:58 AM

It's ok perg, you're doubtless just a bit rusty. I would also move in here with AK and maybe AQ by the way, TT I'd have to have a good old think.

GtrHtr

12-02-2005, 11:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

CO (t1700)
Button (t1280)
SB (t430)
BB (t990)
UTG (t1410)
UTG+1 (t915)
Hero (t700)
MP2 (t575)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG raises to t100, 1 fold, Hero calls t100, couple folds, SB raises to t430 (all-in), UTG calls t330, Hero ??

[/ QUOTE ]

Push P! Oh, and welcome back! Oh, and the calling standards at the 11s, 22s and 33s have hit an all time low so grab ur socks.

bones

12-02-2005, 11:47 AM

You're one of the more talented lags that I know. Embrace it, just don't go *so* buckwild. Definitely push over the first bitch-raise preflop.

durron597

12-02-2005, 11:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know what I was thinking. This is a freaking 11. Failing to push at the first opportunity is just terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

lowsarider

12-02-2005, 11:50 AM

Sigh. I think one of the two players has QQ-AA rougly 50% of the time...just hoping its not with UTG.

I might push, I might call, I might fold. Cant say id play it one way all the time..

tigerite

12-02-2005, 11:51 AM

50% of the time??? At a $11??

LOL you are kidding. Surely, you must be kidding.

lowsarider

12-02-2005, 12:00 PM

Im no expert! Just my thought. The simple call of the all in by UTG suggests strength, doesnt it? Seems he wants the call from us.

I suppose he could have anything, thats why it would be so read dependant for me. I just moved up to $11 SNG's from $6(yes I know $6's are a waste but I am ITM over 50% of the time).

If the UTG guy doesnt have AQ or better, Im a little surprised. Hoping for a pair of 7's through 10's, but wouldnt be surprised to see a much better hand.

If the $11's are as bad as the $6's, which is what Im reading, Im gonna be in good shape at the $11's.

All my decisions early in a tourney are based off of my belief that Im gonna finish in the $ WAY over 50% of the time, if I wait for HUGE edges to push.

Still might go all in when it gets to me though! Just not always...

wiggs73

12-02-2005, 12:02 PM

You've already said it, so it probably doesn't need to be repeated again.

But flat calling for 1/7 of your stack with ANY hand is really bad. First time action is to you, it's a push or a fold. I'd push this 100% of the time.

tigerite

12-02-2005, 12:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Im no expert! Just my thought. The simple call of the all in by UTG suggests strength, doesnt it? Seems he wants the call from us.

I suppose he could have anything, thats why it would be so read dependant for me. I just moved up to $11 SNG's from $6(yes I know $6's are a waste but I am ITM over 50% of the time).

If the UTG guy doesnt have AQ or better, Im a little surprised. Hoping for a pair of 7's through 10's, but wouldnt be surprised to see a much better hand.

If the $11's are as bad as the $6's, which is what Im reading, Im gonna be in good shape at the $11's.

All my decisions early in a tourney are based off of my belief that Im gonna finish in the $ WAY over 50% of the time, if I wait for HUGE edges to push.

Still might go all in when it gets to me though! Just not always...

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, and indeed, dear.

bones

12-02-2005, 12:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
All my decisions early in a tourney are based off of my belief that Im gonna finish in the $ WAY over 50% of the time, if I wait for HUGE edges to push

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Im no expert!

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't sell yourself short here.

hyde

12-02-2005, 12:14 PM

push it, shorty.
You are likely up against a few over cards, with luck they match each other!!

and another game starts in about 11 seconds.

mosdef

12-02-2005, 12:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
TT I'd have to have a good old think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I would fold TT every time. I think that there's a pretty significant difference between TT and JJ here. Since players at the $11s like to get all in with any two face cards, there are a lot more hands in that range that include two overs to TT as opposed to JJ. That is, I think JJ plays quite a bit better against the "bad $11s player all-in range" than TT.

tigerite

12-02-2005, 12:17 PM

I meant about the original call to the minraise.. not about pushing. I doubt I'd push TT there, unless he was a complete nutter.

lowsarider

12-02-2005, 12:17 PM

Because I dont play more than 2 tables at a time ever, and alot of times just one at Party, I think I may be able to get better reads than most.

In this situation, if I have UTG noted as a good player, Im probably folded the PFR a good 60% of the time anyway....unless I think for some reason in this game I might get 2 or 3 others to call along, to spike a J...in which case Im calling a decent % of the time. But that is a small %(that I think that many callers behind are calling the raise also), so mostly Im pushing or folding.

If I have him noted as a LAG, Im pushing most of the time. All them time? Cant say that, and maybe thats a leak on my part...

Pushing because I think if SB has unpaired broadways, and UTG does too, I'm much better than a coin flip against UTG..

tigerite

12-02-2005, 12:18 PM

YOU CANNOT FINISH EVEN CLOSE TO 50% ITM OVER THE LONG TERM AT ANY LEVEL OF SNG, IT IS JUST NOT POSSIBLE.

lowsarider

12-02-2005, 12:22 PM

Go look up leftyutah89 at Pokerprophesy (which I dont use, just went to look up my stats)

Keep in mind I play most of my tourneys on a different site. Wont tell you my % on that site, you wouldnt believe me anyway...

downtown

12-02-2005, 12:23 PM

tigerite

12-02-2005, 12:24 PM

I don't care, I said "LONG TERM". Anyone can do it over a tiny sample size, good luck when you come down from the heater.

It is impossible - there is no other way of putting this. If you don't want to believe me fine, keep believing you are the best SNG player in the world (because you would have to be, to even have 50% ITM, let alone over it)

mosdef

12-02-2005, 12:25 PM

He's not saying that you didn't finish ITM 50% of the time over your last n tournaments. He's saying that your expectation of finishing ITM over 50% of the time is incorrect, and he is right. You should brace yourself for when you go through a stretch on the other side of the bell curve, because eventually you will unless you stop right now.

45suited

12-02-2005, 12:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Go look up leftyutah89 at Pokerprophesy (which I dont use, just went to look up my stats)

Keep in mind I play most of my tourneys on a different site. Wont tell you my % on that site, you wouldnt believe me anyway...

[/ QUOTE ]

You kinda lose credibility when you quote pokerprophecy stats. My ITM is inflated by a good 5% on that site. And most of my games are at the lower levels. Anyone who claims to be at 50% ITM over a large amount of games is lying. PERIOD. Maybe you've done it over a couple hundred, which means that you are on a hot streak.

But if you claim to have a 50% ITM over the long haul, you will be ignored.

lowsarider

12-02-2005, 12:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Go look up leftyutah89 at Pokerprophesy (which I dont use, just went to look up my stats)

Keep in mind I play most of my tourneys on a different site. Wont tell you my % on that site, you wouldnt believe me anyway...

[/ QUOTE ]

You should abandon this line. It's going to get you nowhere, fast.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough. Just here to learn. Wanted to see what kind of response Id get to how I'd handle this hand. A poster said 50% isnt sustainable, and I have probably logged less than 100 SNG's on party, so I dont know. Im sure gonna try like hell!

lowsarider

12-02-2005, 12:32 PM

Fair enough.

Not too worried about my credibility at this point, to be honest. Im here to learn. I know I have alot to learn. Like I said, Im no expert.

I will be happy if I can finish ITM 45% of the time in my next 100 SNG's. Gonna try like hell..

pergesu

12-02-2005, 01:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Go look up leftyutah89 at Pokerprophesy (which I dont use, just went to look up my stats)

Keep in mind I play most of my tourneys on a different site. Wont tell you my % on that site, you wouldnt believe me anyway...

[/ QUOTE ]
Never post your prophecy stats, or suggest that people check them out, in my thread again.

Never hijack my thread again.

Come to think of it, the above two statements are pretty good guidelines for any thread on this site.

I appreciate your comments. Welcome to the site. Hopefully you continue to post your thoughts on a hand, and avoid useless drivel.

Oh and please don't respond to this post unless you've got something to say about the hand. I'll take a lack of a reply as an apology and understanding /images/graemlins/smile.gif

GtrHtr

12-02-2005, 01:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Go look up leftyutah89 at Pokerprophesy (which I dont use, just went to look up my stats)

Keep in mind I play most of my tourneys on a different site. Wont tell you my % on that site, you wouldnt believe me anyway...

[/ QUOTE ]
Never post your prophecy stats, or suggest that people check them out, in my thread again.

Never hijack my thread again.

Come to think of it, the above two statements are pretty good guidelines for any thread on this site.

I appreciate your comments. Welcome to the site. Hopefully you continue to post your thoughts on a hand, and avoid useless drivel.

Oh and please don't respond to this post unless you've got something to say about the hand. I'll take a lack of a reply as an apology and understanding /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. I'm impressed. Do you want a job? /images/graemlins/blush.gif

bigt439

12-02-2005, 01:22 PM

12-02-2005, 01:36 PM

So, how'd this hand turn out?

I'd probably have pushed or raised here, but I'm thinking limping in with $100 may have given you an opportunity to fold and get the heck out of the way. I'd would call SB's allin in a heartbeat but with utg putting in a small bet and calling a large one I'd have to fold here. UTG knows he's going to a showdown has to have something, plus you get to see his cards. And I'd rather push later at hopefully a better time. This is a leak in my game I'm trying to fix were I'm thinking ok anthing decent allin and then action comes, just like this, I call and die without analyzing it. So no more lol.

Pete

12-02-2005, 01:39 PM

JJ is really good at the 11s.

12-02-2005, 01:56 PM

No doubt, I play 5's but usually when this happens to me utg is holding a big pair, and sb probably had something too, either Ax or paint, going against both is bad news. If your lucky utg has a small pair and utg has a small pair. If they both have paint your in big trouble. I played p K's exactly like this at the Sahara a week ago, guys says you have K's not sure why. I say yep. He says I call and busted.

Pete

tigerite

12-02-2005, 02:23 PM

More nonsense.. you WANT to be up against two overcards here, because you TRIPLE UP if you win. As for your comment about KK, no idea what you're on about, again.

12-02-2005, 02:55 PM

I'd love this heads up it's cold calling 2 players allin that's bugging me, I'm pretty sure sb has something Ax or small pair, maybe suited connector. But UTG looks like A's or K's to me with a small chance of a small pair or paint which means I'm in big trouble. Best I can tell with Pokerstove, if there's a better tool let me know. I've got about a 33% chance to get a 2.5x bump and it's early in the game with the blinds at %50. Downside is only $600 chips left but it's still little early to me. If I had K's or A's at and aggressive bet stealing table this is how I'd playem.

Now, if I believed there was a ak, qk or something you're right I should push.

Pete