sleeping problems anyone

[SparrowHawk]

I just read the post on poker dreams and it got me thinking about how freaken tired I always am. I play mostly live games 4 nights a week from early evening to mid/late am...3/4 am. I get anywhere from 8-12 hours of sleep, but man I don't sleep well!

Any suggestions on how to adjust to long sessions that start and end at different times? Should playing being approached the same way a 9 to 5 works...same time to bed same time to rise...now that would just take the whole fun of the lifestyle away.

Thougthts?

I also have had chronic problems with being overly tired. I see neurologists and right off the bat they tested me for sleep disorders. It turned out I had sleep apnea (a very common problem that can be very dangerous) and they recommended either CPAP or surgery (I had the later). Sleep apnea will rob you of deep stage sleep and constantly wake you up, thus making you tired throughout the day. Also, anxiety is notorious for disrupting sleep. And, as you have already discovered, it's very important to have a sleeping routine/schedule. This can have a dramatic effect on acquiring deep and meaningful sleep.

There are myriad other conditions that can result in being overly tired such as depression, anxiety, sleep apnea, narcolepsy, alcoholism or drug abuse, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, chronic pain syndromes etc. I would strongly recommend seeing a medical doctor as a precautionary measure.

JeffreyREBT

[Namdrahsirhc]

I used to work from 11p-7a and a psych hospital and i would normally get between 4 and 5 hours of sleep per day, everyday. I kinda slipped into a depression without ever knowing it and it all stopped when i quit that job and slept during normal hours.

Anyway the point is, your body is not made to sleep during the day. Its an evolutionary thing, because the sun lights everything up so you can see and do things properly. Obviously you can see and do things properly at night in today's world, but your body is still meant to sleep at night.

The only thing i could suggest is to get a blindfold and a fan that makes a lot of constant noise. This is what i do when i need to sleep during the day.

PS. Wizard of Earthsea was an awesome book

sleeps important, worth getting sorted.
regular rhythms obviously helps, but i know what you mean, playing at night kinda messes this up, but theres plenty you can do to mitigate the problem.

you dont sleep well if you brain is still highly active (like after playing poker), you need to relax into your body, ie let your blood/energy drain out your head, so youve got normal blood flows again.

hot baths, or just getting your feet in hot water helps.
feeling you feet, rotating you ankles 100 times one way 100 times the other b4 sleep helps get your attention back into the body.
u can learn some meditation, relaxation techniques, tai chi etc. The Chinese (Tai chi/chi gung people) know a lot of good stuff about these things, (useful at the table too /images/graemlins/wink.gif )

While your're playing - How relaxed are you, how aware of your body are you, use the breaks to relax - release the stress at the time.
For anything the sooner you release stress the easier it is, if you leave it too long its like concrete after its set. it drains you long term and sets into the body, you go numb to it.

I've hardly read anywhere in poker books about the importance of relaxation. The top players talk about feel - but what helps you to feel - relaxing!!
Instinct, feel these things have a lot to do with the body. - play with your mind and body.

I dont know if this helps,
anyway, hope you find some way to sleep better

A few simple tricks can help sleep greatly after those long sessions. The most overlooked idea is getting something like nozovent or another nasal opener to put in while you sleep. I dont sell them but I sleep much better when I get more oxygen...

Turkey before bed....contains natural sleep enhancing amino acids

Melatonin low cost and works well for many if taken on occasion.

Also reading a non-poker book before bed to relax and get your mind in a plesent state

Hi sparrowhawk,

Playing poker within a few hours of going to sleep is generally bad for your sleep. Increased levels of anxiety and stress has adverse effects on the quality of your sleep.

Personally, in order to get a better sleep, I need to really get my mind off poker and other things that make me anxious. The best way to do this is to maintain non-poker obligations and devote a large portion of your time and energy to non-poker. Oddly enough, I find that when I spend less time playing poker and more time doing other things, I play much better poker, and feel much better too.

[ QUOTE ]
I just read the post on poker dreams and it got me thinking about how freaken tired I always am. I play mostly live games 4 nights a week from early evening to mid/late am...3/4 am. I get anywhere from 8-12 hours of sleep, but man I don't sleep well!

Any suggestions on how to adjust to long sessions that start and end at different times? Should playing being approached the same way a 9 to 5 works...same time to bed same time to rise...now that would just take the whole fun of the lifestyle away.

Thougthts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I went to a sleep specialist for this very problem. He didn't think that I have sleep apnea. His suggestion was that I determine what time I want to get up and go to sleep 7-8 hours before that but the most important thing is to get up at the same time every day even if you go to bed 4 hours before that time. He told me to also expose myself to sunlight for about a half-hour when I get up. For as long as I heeded his advice I felt better but I've fallen off the wagon. The poker lifestyle can really mess you up.

[SparrowHawk]

Everyone. Thanks for insightful thoughts. I think the issue is worth explorering. As poker players we put a lot of stress on ourselves. "Why didn't I raise that turn bet". I knew he had the set".

Internal talk is critical to growth in this game and I, like many others, go to bed thinking about the game and hands. Matter of fact....4:30 AM EST right now. Just took a lose and writing my notes. I will take the suggestions and relax for a half hour so.

Sleep apnea. I have asked my doctor about this. He didn't seem concerned. Is there anyway to tell you suffer from this with out going to a sleep clinic? Do the nose strips help to stop apnea?

Keep the ideas coming.

Sparro

Let me put it this way- it's 6 in the morning here and I'm not just getting up for the day. I'm actually going to bed around 7:30. I've always had a hard time sleeping. I used to take Trazadone for it, which worked wonders. However, my normal sleep cycle is usually 4 in the morning to noon. I never found a decent position working second or third shift. As such, my rhythm was always off. Weekends were great, it was the only time I felt normal, going to bed at when the sun was about ready to up and waking up at noon.

Now, I play poker late in the day and again later at night. After playing poker, I cannot shut my mind off and just sleep. It takes hours for me to wind down. I quit playing at 3 this morning and feel only slightly tired.

As far as suggestions go, there are many relaxation exercises you can do to unwind. The method that works best for me is to breathe in to the count of seven, using your heartbeat as the metronome. Hold to the count of seven. Breathe out for seven. If seven is too long, use a smaller number.

[stigmata]

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Internal talk

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This is your problem. You don't want these higher level thoughts kicking around in your head whilst trying to sleep.

Make an hour or so relaxation time before sleeping. Turn off, and stop thinking about poker. Make a nice cup of hot milk/chocolate/herbal tea. Read a good book (fiction, not poker /images/graemlins/wink.gif). If you could have sex then that works great /images/graemlins/grin.gif If you don't have a partner or they are asleep, that's a shame, but you can just relax yourself....

[Rooster71]

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Sleep apnea. I have asked my doctor about this. He didn't seem concerned.

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What questions did he ask you? What did you tell him?

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Is there anyway to tell you suffer from this with out going to a sleep clinic?

[/ QUOTE ]
A sleep study provides an accurate and firm diagnosis. But you can look at different things and get a pretty good idea if you have sleep apnea without having a sleep study. Do you have morning headaches? Do you frequently wake up sweating? What is your height/weight? There is plenty of info on the web about this.

[ QUOTE ]
Do the nose strips help to stop apnea?

[/ QUOTE ]No, not unless the problem has to do with your nose.

I just had UPPP and tongue reduction surgeries for sleep apnea, yesterday. I posted about this a while back. I promised to provide updates regarding results. But as of right now it is too early to tell. But I can say for sure that even with all of the pain, my breathing feels more free throughout my throat/head.

Sorry if my response seems clouded, I am heavily under the influence of liquid Lortab.

-Rooster

[ QUOTE ]


Sleep apnea. I have asked my doctor about this. He didn't seem concerned. Is there anyway to tell you suffer from this with out going to a sleep clinic? Do the nose strips help to stop apnea?

Keep the ideas coming.

Sparro

[/ QUOTE ]

I tried the nose strips but they didnt seem to stay on at night and they didnt open up the nasal passages like Nozovent or sinus cones did. I think that oxggen intake during sleep is overlooked. I am impressed by how much better sleep I now get with the extra oxygen.

I used to read poker and watch the Sklansky seminar video before bed but I would just stay up and think about poker and not sleep enough lol..but now reading sports autobiographies before bed work well for me

Has anyone tried smoking marijuana to help them goto sleep? I mean I don't really have any sleeping problems but I know this stuff makes me lazy and really tired, and easly goto sleep.
Just a suggestion, not saying smoke every night before bed.. but hey some people do and it works.

Rooster,

Please accept my symptathies as I pity anybody recovering from an invasive sleep apnea surgery. At least your pain is being managed ;-) I had the uvulaplasty (spelling?) with tonsillectomy and biopsy. The doctor told me I'd want /images/graemlins/smile.gifto kill her because she wouldn't be able to treat the post-op pain aggressively as it 'inferfere with the gauge relfex.' I got Motrin and a maximum of one tylenol 3 every 6 hours! This was later upped to 1-2 tablets after the nurses complained I looked too pain-ridden. Anyways, at least your pain is being properly managed as this, in the words of the doctor, 'is one of the most vulgar and painful surgeries known.' It feels like you have a severe case of strep for 2 weeks and then it just feels like strep throat for 2 weeks.

Here's the bad news: other doctors told me after the surgery that the surgery was generally ineffective! I think they generally stick with CPAP. However, I can't stand CPAP and refused it no matter what (I can't sleep with it on). Also, I don't know if the surgery really was warranted in my case as the last neurologist said it looked more like narcolepsy. I do need another sleep study as I couldn't sleep on my most recent 2 trials.

Good news: The only noise I make at night is my wheezing and occasional heavy breathing from asthma. I no longer SNORE! Not snoring was worth the misery and cost of the surgery.

I hope your recovery proceeds well and you obtain some measure of relief from your sleep disorder. Good luck!

JeffreyREBT /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[FrankStallone]

Sleep cd's that have a low freq. hum that gradually slow down got me in a routine and then I was fine. good luck.