Havent posted one of these in a while (a-high screwplay)

[NLSoldier]

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Kd, As.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 2c, 7s, 5s <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 2d <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 9h <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

What do you guys this is best river plan here? My usual when i use this move is check/fold, but this board was really nice so check/calling and value betting are options as well imo.

[TStoneMBD]

screwplay means you bet flop and checkraise turn? i like that play alot. not here though.

after he calls your turn raise i would check the river. alot of players will check behind with small pairs and PPs because they think youre a total donkey double checkraising a big pair. i dont think a bet has much value. id rather him check behind.

[Spicymoose]

Wow. I have never used the screwplay, nor fully understood it. I think this is an excellent time to do it on the flop. When people cold call, a huge portion of their range is usually high cards. They also can't resist betting the turn after you check, so I think this is great. As for the river, once he calls your turn check raise, I would guess he probably has a small PP, but maybe he still has overcards. I would just check/call.

[NLSoldier]

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after he calls your turn raise i would check the river. alot of players will check behind with small pairs and PPs because they think youre a total donkey double checkraising a big pair. i dont think a bet has much value. id rather him check behind.

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yep this is my reasoning for checking being my default river plan after a screwplay.

[sthief09]

bet the turn. given that you didnt, value bet the river

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
screwplay means you bet flop and checkraise turn? i like that play alot. not here though.

after he calls your turn raise i would check the river. alot of players will check behind with small pairs and PPs because they think youre a total donkey double checkraising a big pair. i dont think a bet has much value. id rather him check behind.

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they never seem to have a problem value betting me. i think he gets paid off by A high plenty often

[Wynton]

I'm not sure I see the point of the screw play here. Is this for value or to get a better hand to fold?

If villain has some kind of mediocre pair, I think that screw play might get him to check the river, but probably not fold the hand.

If villain has as worse Ace, isn't it better just to lead the turn and, perhaps the river also?

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure I see the point of the screw play here. Is this for value or to get a better hand to fold?

If villain has some kind of mediocre pair, I think that screw play might get him to check the river, but probably not fold the hand.

If villain has as worse Ace, isn't it better just to lead the turn and, perhaps the river also?

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If villain has a PP, he may fold on the turn, but it isn't all that likely. The times he does is great though. Lots of times we extract an extra BB from overcards who would have folded to our turn bet. Occasionally we might even get high cards to call our check raise, and then bluff us at the river.

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure I see the point of the screw play here. Is this for value or to get a better hand to fold?

If villain has some kind of mediocre pair, I think that screw play might get him to check the river, but probably not fold the hand.

If villain has as worse Ace, isn't it better just to lead the turn and, perhaps the river also?

[/ QUOTE ]

when I do it im pretty much never trying to get a better hand to fold cuz that pretty much never happens. like spicymoose said, it often extracts an extra bet out of overcards that would have folded to the turn bet, and sometimes 2 extra bets because they call out of frusteration. another reason that i occasionally do it with ace high is because i will fairly often do it with very strong made hands.

[TStoneMBD]

i like doing screw plays on boards where the opponent pretty much has to have a pair by calling a flop bet or i know hell bet the turn. on this ragged flop hes peeling with any overcards and alot of players are going to check the turn. i really dont like the screw play here it serves no purpose imo.

[NLSoldier]

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i like doing screw plays on boards where the opponent pretty much has to have a pair by calling a flop bet or i know hell bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

so do i...if i have better than a pair...



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on this ragged flop hes peeling with any overcards

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agreed

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alot of players are going to check the turn.

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disagree. if you had something like QJ here wouldnt you feel like they ALWAYS bet when you check? I know i do. so i try to counter it by somtimes screwplaying with ace high because i dont think he has a pair either.

[Schneids]

NL,

I used to do this now I always just bet the turn on this board because I'm also betting Q-high, I'm also betting TP, I'm also betting overpairs and I'm also betting sets. On this board, I think it sucks. Much like QR which I just tried out now since I clicked post and it said "this form is no longer valid."

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
NL,

I used to do this now I always just bet the turn on this board because I'm also betting Q-high, I'm also betting TP, I'm also betting overpairs and I'm also betting sets. On this board, I think it sucks. Much like QR which I just tried out now since I clicked post and it said "this form is no longer valid."

[/ QUOTE ]

why does it suck on this board? i think this board is about as good as you can ask for as far as an ace high screwplay goes.

[DcifrThs]

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NL,

I used to do this now I always just bet the turn on this board because I'm also betting Q-high, I'm also betting TP, I'm also betting overpairs and I'm also betting sets. On this board, I think it sucks. Much like QR which I just tried out now since I clicked post and it said "this form is no longer valid."

[/ QUOTE ]

in a crazy turn in events, i agree w/ mikey_ _ _

further, LEARN HOW TO CLICK NLSOILER!!

Barron

[etizzle]

because why would you check if you had K high or Q high. Theres a pretty good chance he was peeling one and will fold to the turn bet, so a turn follow through should be the standard here pretty much every time you dont have a hand.
I think he will take the free card way too much, as the check seems supsicious.

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]
NL,

I used to do this now I always just bet the turn on this board because I'm also betting Q-high, I'm also betting TP, I'm also betting overpairs and I'm also betting sets. On this board, I think it sucks. Much like QR which I just tried out now since I clicked post and it said "this form is no longer valid."

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't decide how much it matters that the screw-play deviates from one's normal routine. How often does anyone actually resort to a screw play? More than once a session?

I still don't like it here, though I haven't quite figured out the best reason for my position yet.

And what is up with that silly QR function working only as often as my pocket Kings holding up?

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
NL,

I used to do this now I always just bet the turn on this board because I'm also betting Q-high, I'm also betting TP, I'm also betting overpairs and I'm also betting sets. On this board, I think it sucks. Much like QR which I just tried out now since I clicked post and it said "this form is no longer valid."

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't see how the fact that you bet your good hands is justification for betting A high and Q high etc. your opponent, at any limit really, knows it's more likely you hold overcards in this spot than top pair, a set, or an overpair. so, it seems like they win and you lose if they call you down everytime here with any pair. that's why i thinking mixing it up (i.e. using all 4 options regularly) like NLsoldier does is important.