Chance of at least middle-class lifestyle in US

[TomCollins]

Assume you are born in the US. If you do the following things, what are your chances of a middle-class lifestyle?

1) Graduate High School
2) Don't get someone/yourself pregnant
3) Stay off drugs

[sam h]

It all depends how you define middle-class lifestyle. If you actually take the median family income, that is quite easy to attain under these three conditions. But most people on this board would not consider that to be "middle-class." I have heard people on this board describe making over 100K a year (perhaps 90th income percentile) as "middle-class," so I don't know what this really means in these parts.

[canis582]

Assuming no Vo-Tech in High School?

I'm glad you brought this up. I was thinking of a quote that I agree with last night. Can't think of who said it or the exact wording, but it was something like: "if you don't have anything beyond a high school diploma, then you shouldn't expect to live a middle class lifestyle." (See, I am not that liberal)

Depends on the creativity or charisma of the individual.

If you can do tattoos or juggle professionally, then you can be middle class.

If you can sell cars or wait tables at a fancy restaurant, then you can be middle class.

If you can only lift boxes or work at 7-11, then you better find a cheap apartment and some roommates.

[The Don]

I need a definition of middle class.

[DVaut1]

[ QUOTE ]
I have heard people on this board describe making over 100K a year (perhaps 90th income percentile) as "middle-class," so I don't know what this really means in these parts.

[/ QUOTE ]

On a somewhat unrelated note, I once read a survey that claimed something like 97% of Americans described themselves as middle-class.

So I'm of the opinion that American conceptions of what constitutes 'middle-class' are relatively meaningless, be they on 2+2 or elsewhere.

[tolbiny]

This is very often based upon what class you are actually born into. A person born into the middle class will have more friends/family in positions to help them get jobs at a middle class wage.
If your talking about a person born into a lower class situation then you have to redefine #2 for me. Do you mean never get someone/yourself pregnant untill you reach a middle class lifestyle (my assumption), or do you mean never get preggers before you can afford it - ie having a child wouldn't nessecitate government sponsored programs/charity to meed basic needs and to provide some sort of savings.

Also as others have said, define middle class. As a general definition i would say someone who can afford to buy thier own home (down payment and mortgage) and have a separate savings plan for retirement would be middle class. A couple of distinctions- obviously certain areas this wouldn't work for- extrodinarily high property value like NY and LA and extrodinarily low ones- like high crime areas of Detroit wouldn't count. Here in cleveland- one of the lower cost of living cities in the US- the min for this for a single person is probably 30k per year, totally bare bones. SO i would say that 35k per year in Cl Oh counts as lower middle class. $17.50 an hour. About what a restaurant manager makes starting out- Or what you could probably get after a year or two in construction, or as a fulltime waiter at a place like Applebees.

[TomCollins]

[ QUOTE ]
It all depends how you define middle-class lifestyle. If you actually take the median family income, that is quite easy to attain under these three conditions. But most people on this board would not consider that to be "middle-class." I have heard people on this board describe making over 100K a year (perhaps 90th income percentile) as "middle-class," so I don't know what this really means in these parts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely not 100K by any means. I'm talking live in a reasonably safe neighborhood, have a car that runs well, and not have to work 2 jobs to support it. Maybe 30th percentile right now.

[TomCollins]

I screwed up the 3rd item, it should have been "Stay out of Jail".

Until someone can come up with a better word for middle class, I will use the term "at least slightly above the poverty level"?

[Indiana]

All of the liberals are going to vote on low probabilities. They love to complain about hard hard life is and how broke they are.

Indy

[sam h]

[ QUOTE ]

Definitely not 100K by any means. I'm talking live in a reasonably safe neighborhood, have a car that runs well, and not have to work 2 jobs to support it. Maybe 30th percentile right now.

[/ QUOTE ]

30th percentile is probably like a family income of 30K a year. Is that really what you mean? If so it is not too hard to do as long as you have a high school education and have your head on straight. But that is pretty far from the stable "middle-class lifestyle" that is often associated with the American dream.

[sam h]

[ QUOTE ]
On a somewhat unrelated note, I once read a survey that claimed something like 97% of Americans described themselves as middle-class.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice! /images/graemlins/cool.gif Many people just have very little perspective about where they stand in the income structure. Also, nobody wants to admit to being "upper class." I had this argument a long time ago with somebody on this forum, but I forget who. Basically it came down to the idea that if you worked and had any financial limitations at all, you were "middle-class" even if your household was pulling in over 200K a year and you could be placed somewhere near the 95th percentile in the income structure.

[lehighguy]

Depends alot on where you live. I think you need minimum 6-figures to be middle class here in NYC.

[nef]

[ QUOTE ]
All of the liberals are going to vote on low probabilities. They love to complain about hard hard life is and how broke they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Pro-Government Conservatives and Disadvantaged Democrats have similar socioeconomic backgrounds and confront many of the same financial struggles. Both groups are predominantly female, both are relatively poor, and large majorities in both groups express dissatisfaction with their financial circumstances.

But these groups have strikingly different outlooks on their lives and possibilities that go a long way toward explaining the differences in their political attitudes. Feelings about the power of the individual are a major factor in this division. Pro-Government Conservatives are defined, at least in part, by their optimism in this area. About three-quarters (76%) believe that most people can get ahead if they are willing to work hard * and two-thirds (66%) strongly express that view. An even higher percentage of Pro-Government Conservatives (81%) say that everyone has it in his or her own power to succeed.

Disadvantaged Democrats have a gloomier outlook. Just 14% think that people can get ahead by working hard; 79% say that hard work is no guarantee of success, and 76% express that view strongly."

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=945

I voted for one of the higher probabilities. With the caveat that I am making this estimate for a motivated person I would say they are a favorite to lead a middle class lifestyle. I consider middle class to be something like: 30k < middle class < 100k/year. Above that level I would consider someone upper mc or whatever.

ETA:
I like the guy from Cleveland's definition of middle class better than my previous one, I would then have to lower the probability a bit, but still a favorite, so I would vote 50-70%