Facing turn check-raise

[soko]

This is such a common situation, should I start folding these, you are pretty much ALWAYS behind but the voice in your head always telling you, you need to find out what he could be holding, there is a 2.1% chance he is bluffing, the guy is an unknown.

is JTo a good enough stealing hand? I am totally ignorant to blind stealing methods.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: (2.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

[hemstock]

Raise preflop. 8-Handed is not considered short handed.
I can't call the turn raise without a strong read.

[soko]

the button and the blinds is considered a short handed pot according to the glossary in the back of SSHE.

[MrWookie47]

When it's folded to hero on the button, that's shorthanded enough for me. Definitely raise preflop. In this spot, raise or fold preflop, and JTo is a solid raise.

I might be able to fold that river. Even if the c/r was a semibluff with a flush draw, it got there. Any read?

[Peter Harris]

That is a pretty rotten PF limp, I dont think you will see that advocated anywhere.

I fold to the turn c/r comfortably.

If you're going to learn HUSH, get started on blind stealing. Even at full ring you should have some inkling of what to do.

[deception5]

Definitely raise preflop, consider the effect limping has on the rest of the hand and the fact that the SB is almost always going to complete here so you have to beat 2 opponents instead of 1. After raising preflop you'd typically want to bet a flop like this as well even if it missed you.

I would usually fold to the turn c/r here.

[JerseyTom]

As others have said, raise preflop.

I fold to the turn C/R unless I have a read that my opponent could do this without clubs or without an A. Fairly small pot; next hand, please.


Tom

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
When it's folded to hero on the button, that's shorthanded enough for me. Definitely raise preflop. In this spot, raise or fold preflop, and JTo is a solid raise.

I would fold that river. Even if the c/r was a semibluff with a flush draw, it got there. Any read?


[/ QUOTE ]

fyp, I agree with everything else Wookie said

[SUfan5]

Raise preflop. Hand will play out differently from there.

[TomBrooks]

Your getting 5:1 to call the turn raise.

If a Villian would raise this turn without an ace one time in six, you would break even to call if your in the lead.

Lose 5 times: 5 x -1BB = -5BB
Win 1 time: 1 x 5BB = 5BB
Breakeven

If Villian would raise without an ace one out of five times, you might make a small profit to call.

Lose 4 times: 4 x -1 = -4BB
Win 1 time: 1 x 5 = +5
Small profit: 1BB in 5 hands = .2BB/hand

If Villian would raise without an ace one out of four times...
Lose 3 times: 3 x -1 = -3BB
Win 1 time: 1 x 5 BB = 5BB
Decent Profit: 2BB in 4 hands = .5BB/hand

So, would Villian raise without an ace at least one in four times?

This doesn't account for times Villian has two clubs or some other better hand like a set. It also doesn't account for having to call another bet on the river. I didn't think it through that thoroughly.

[DCWildcat]

Raise preflop. Turn depends a lot on the player, but I'm leaning toward folding. Clubs don't c/r this often enough.

This would be high time to change tables too.

[bobman0330]

Tom:

Even if villain would raise w/o an ace however many times, he could have a ton of outs with something like KhQh.

I like fold &gt; call turn, fold this river &gt; calldown, but I think they're all close, and player dependent. In particular, fold the turn is better against a thinking player who understands semibluffs. Calldown is much better against a nutjob.

[soko]

Thanks for the advice,

A raise before the flop could have helped me save a bet or two when he check raises me on the turn because it would have been easier for me to believe him having an ace if he calls a preflop raise and bets at the preflop raiser with an ace on the board.

Results:
<font color="white">
SB had AJ </font>

[DMBFan23]

there seems to be some fear of being outplayed here, trepidation, etc, so I'll offer my take on it.

I fold without a read, and I think *calling* is being outplayed.